Due to an oversight the name of G-d appears on the front page of the magazine section of our July 10 issue. Please be sure to dispose of it properly. Consult your local Orthodox rabbi for details.
Elliot Resnick, Jewish Press Staff Reporter Posted Jun 25 2008
Speaking at the 200th birthday celebration of Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch this past Shabbos, Khal Adath Jeshurun's Rav Yisroel Mantel declared that the philosophical credo of Rav Hirsch, Torah Im Derech Eretz, is not viable in the absence of its chief advocate.
Rav Hirsch was a 19th century champion of Orthodoxy and the founder of Khal Adath Jeshurun's parent community in Frankfurt, Germany.
Rav Mantel's declaration, which angered many in the community, came at a sit-down kiddush at Dr. Raphael Moller Hall in Washington Heights after Shabbos morning services. He said that only Rav Hirsch, a great man who knew the fine boundaries between what is religiously permissible and what is prohibited, could make Torah Im Derech Eretz workable.
Our generation, he said, must follow today's gedolei HaTorah (great Torah leaders).
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After Shabbos, Dr. Eric Erlbach, KAJ president for over two decades, resigned.
The Torah Im Derech Eretz philosophy calls for the active engagement between Torah and culture and society.
Samson Bechhofer, a great-great-grandchild of Rav Hirsch, spoke first at the kiddush. The synagogue's choir conductor and a lawyer by profession, Bechhofer lamented the educational policies of the community's Yeshiva Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch school in recent years.
"If the goal of our kehilla and yeshiva is to have all of our sons and daughters end up in Lakewood - and I use Lakewood as a metaphor - then I submit that we are not being faithful to our founder's philosophy or Weltanschauung, nor are we doing the future of our kehilla any great favors," Bechhofer said.
Rav Mantel stood up and walked out of the hall at these words. He later returned and told the several hundred assembled that "grandchildren and lawyers" will not decide how to implement Torah Im Derech Eretz.
Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch - his philosophy in question in his own community.
Other speakers at the 200th celebration Shabbos included Rosh Yeshiva Rabbi Meir Tzvi Bergman (the son-in-law of Rav Elazar Menachem Shach), noted columnist Rabbi Jonathan Rosenblum, and Rabbi Eliyahu Meir Klugman, Rav Hirsch's biographer.
Among their many remarks, Rabbi Bergman praised Rav Hirsch for his Chumash commentary, which has recently been retranslated; Rabbi Rosenblum lauded Rav Hirsch's philosophy of Judaism, from which, he said, many Jews can derive much-needed spirit and purpose; and Rabbi Klugman credited Rav Hirsch for teaching all of Orthodox Jewry how to live authentically Jewish lives in a world without ghetto walls.
Rav Mantel also highly praised Rav Hirsch during his sermon in shul, reminding the audience that Rav Yisrael Salanter (1810-1883) once said, "Where is there a Gan Eden big enough for Rav Hirsch?"
Speaking later at Seudah Shlishis, Rav Mantel credited Rav Hirsch for demonstrating definitively that Jews can plant the Torah in any culture.
Torah Im Derech Eretz, Rav Shimon Schwab (rabbi of KAJ from 1958-1995) once said, "means the Torah's conquest of life and not the Torah's flight from life. It means the Torah's casting a light into the darkness rather than hiding from the darkness. It means applying Torah to the earth and not divorcing it from the earth."
If the Rav of Breuer's could say publicly that Torah im Derech Eretz was a Horaas Sho'ah - then KAJ no longer retains any semblance of Hirschian Ideals. Has KAJ been "stabbed in the back"?
His message has been misinterpreted by people outside of the Kehillo for a long time. He never meant to make Derech Eretz the ikkar,he did ,however believe it is needed in order to understand the Torah better.In order to be Torah and G-D-fearing people,we must understand how things around us work,how we arrived at where we are today and everything that we decide how to do in life must be done with the rules of Torah without dilution.Therefore the reformers who dilute the Torah only destroy R''L Yiddishkeit,even if it is ''only''one little bit. We must make honest parnosso,and now that the goyim allow Jews to join professions it is our duty to show the world the tremendous kiddush Hashem Torah-true Jews can contribute to the whole world. והיה הקב"ה למלך על כל הארץ etc. Learning Torah lishmo is the Jewish ideal,but not everyone is suited to sit and learn all day. Hashem made 12 shevotim to work together as separate units to work together as a Kehillo towards a common goal. We need doctors and lawywers,accountants and facory workers to earn a living and support Torah and to help explain what the Torah ( b''ksav and baal peh) are teaching us. Without math,science,history,geography,computer knowledge and more,our people will fall by the wayside and leave Torah because it is too hard for many.Our people should not have to mingle with the goyish world unneccessarily and we can prevent that if we have wise people in all knowledges from our very own. Those who decide to dress chassidic,let them,but also know that every wrong you do will be scrutinized even more since you show arrogantly what you supposedly believe in if you do otherwise.HKB"H wants us to understand how the spirit of Hashem is in EVERYTHING that exists.
Your Message: His message has been misinterpreted by people outside of the Kehillo for a long time. He never meant to make Derech Eretz the ikkar,he did ,however believe it is needed in order to understand the Torah better.In order to be Torah and G-D-fearing people,we must understand how things around us work,how we arrived at where we are today and everything that we decide how to do in life must be done with the rules of Torah without dilution.Therefore the reformers who dilute the Torah only destroy R''L Yiddishkeit,even if it is ''only''one little bit. We must make honest parnosso,and now that the goyim allow Jews to join professions it is our duty to show the world the tremendous kiddush Hashem Torah-true Jews can contribute to the whole world. והיה הקב"ה למלך על כל הארץ etc. Learning Torah lishmo is the Jewish ideal,but not everyone is suited to sit and learn all day. Hashem made 12 shevotim to work together as separate units to work together as a Kehillo towards a common goal. We need doctors and lawywers,accountants and facory workers to earn a living and support Torah and to help explain what the Torah ( b''ksav and baal peh) are teaching us. Without math,science,history,geography,computer knowledge and more,our people will fall by the wayside and leave Torah because it is too hard for many.Our people should not have to mingle with the goyish world unneccessarily and we can prevent that if we have wise people in all knowledges from our very own. Those who decide to dress chassidic,let them,but also know that every wrong you do will be scrutinized even more since you show arrogantly what you supposedly believe in if you do otherwise.HKB"H wants us to understand how the spirit of Hashem is in EVERYTHING that exists. Raphael Moeller
I was disappointed to read the report of the SRH celebration in view of the fact that the most important part of the introductary remarks were omitted.
The introduction included the fact that in all kehilla communities in the world, the Torah of its founder is taught in their yeshivas. The M.C. sadly reported the fact that in the SRH yeshiva this is not the case. Rav Hirsch's Torah commentary, recognized across the world, is not formally taught in the yeshiva which proudly carries his name.
Dr. Michael F. Kirschner Washington heights, New York
I have a child in the school and attended it myself. I don't believe I opened a sefer by Rav Hirsch until I was in my 20s. I knew next to nothing about the man my school was named for. While some of this may have been due to an overly thick skull, I am not seeing my child get much in the way exposure either.
I am happy with the quality of my child''s education, and think the Elementary staff is doing a fine job. I don't want it to seem like I am slamming the school. I am, however, saddened by what feels like the Rav of the community taking a Yizachar vs Zevulon stance.
It is extremely difficult to teach Rav Samson Raphael Hirsch z"tl in high school let alone in elementary school. The Rav's teaching was written in classic German. The first translation of the Peirush on the Chumash was difficult at times even for adults to comprehend. I don't know of any Yeshiva that will teach Limudei Kodesh out of English Sephorim. To the best of my knowledge there is only one Seipher of the Rav that was translated into Loshon Hakodesh that is the Peirush on the Chumash. Very few people have learnt the Hebrew version of the Peirush on Chumash let alone are able to teach it. Congratulation to Rav Mantel shlitoh for standing up to that uncalled for comment about Lakewood. To the best of my knowledge many of the Rabbeim from the Yeshiva R S R Hirsch learned in Lakewood.
This is just evidence of Breuers continuing to drive themselves down the tubes. No one is doing it to them; they are doing it to themselves. That's what happens when you trash your own mesorah!
what do people have against south Jersey? how can someone - sitting in his community in upper manhattan - pass judgment on ANY of the Jersey shore communities??
It's true. Unfortuently, most yeshivous brainwash the children to go to Lakewood because that is the true derech of being a Jew. Anything less, is an Am Haaretz. YRSRH is the only yeshiva that I know that preaches you can be a great Jew in the workforce! They train the children with Torah and how to live a Torah life while working!
And to those who are upset that they used Lakewood as an example, prove my point that a lack in English education can be dangerous. The speaker himself said "and I use Lakewood as a metaphor". Please educate yourself what a metaphor means.
I would fire the rov. His daas is not insync with the Kehila and he should move to Lakewood (not being used as a metaphor).
I think the fact that almost every klei kodesh position in KAJ from the Rav on down (starting with Rav Schwab ZTZ"L) is filled by someone educated outside of KAJ or any TIDE institution may be cause to consider that the Rav's comments are right on the money. One must also ponder the Hasmada in Torah of the Zeide Rav Hirch ZTZ"L and the fact that the zeide Rav Hirch ZTZ"L promoted Torah im D.E. and not the reverse, D.E. im Torah. Although there are many faithful adherents to his derech, there are many who are living a life of D.E. im Torah and saying that they adherents of his shita. Worse yet there are those who practice Torah im Mada (which Rav Breur ZTZ"L decried) and claim to be followers of his. Lakewood is a lot closer to what Rav Breur ZTZ"L had in mind than Torah im Mada.
Unfortunately the yeshivah world has a very strong prejudice against the German Jewish tradition in general, not merely that of Hirsch. In Manchester, England, the Adass Yeshurun has ben taken over by such a group who appointed a rabbi to further their objectives. Those favouring the old tradition have been bullied into leaving or, if they did not go willingly, were physically barred from entry, something that has not happened since Yeravam ben Nevat posted guards to prevent his subjects from being oleh regel.
Although I am not a member of the German Jewish community, I am disturbed by Rabbi Mantel's remarks.
Obviously, Rav Hirsch's philosophy needs to be properly applied to every generation and locale (the same is true about Rav Aharon Kotler's philosophy, or any other). But it is an entirely different matter to dismiss "Torah Im Derech Eretz" as irrelevant in our time.
For one thing, in a generation where tuition is so expensive and, therefore, the need for "Derech Eretz" cannot be minimized, it is essential that the Derech Eretz be balanced with Torah learning and practice. One could, in fact, argue that "Torah Im Derech Eretz" has never been more relevant.
Furthermore, with Rav Hirsch gone almost 120 years, why is it first being said now that "Torah Im Derech Eretz" could only be properly implemented in his lifetime?
It would have been more politically savvy (and, I believe, more accurate) to say that "Torah Im Derech Eretz" is alive and well today, although it is essential that the philosophy be properly applied to every generation and locale.
The downside to such candor would have been the need to acknowledge (at least implicitly) that, by no stretch of the imagination, could learning in Kollel indefinitely be deemed consistent with "Torah Im Derech Eretz."
I only found one opinion here that sounds right. yes all of you who disagree with the Rav are taking a stand from the pt that you are comfortable with your Derech Eretz; torah taking the backseat, and you don't want to change the way you live your life. So you want to take torah im derech eretz and interpret it to mean whatever suits your lifestyle (don't try and fool yourself). Yes, torah is the ikkur! and so it emunas chachamim. you disagree? work on yourself!
BTW for all those putting down Washington Heights, especially the OUTSIDERS. pick on Obama.
Rav Hirsch's Torah Im Derech Eretz, I believe, presents a paradigm by which klal yisroel can come together. First of all, Rav Hirsch's genius was that he realized that Orthodoxy cannot be intellectually-closed to the riches of the natural and social sciences, because these disciplines explain the functioning of the natural world and human race created by HaShem and used by the Torah to convey the will of HaShem for the Jewish people and the world at-large. While Derech Eretz does not view science (maddah) as another avenue of truth (only the torah is emes, according to Rav Hirsch, although maddah casts light on and enables us to fully understand torah, distinguishing Derech Eretz from Modern Orthodoxy, based on Torah u'Maddah, the premise that both torah and science are valid ways of pursuing truth), it does represent the only viable means, I believe, for Orthodoxy to remain fully committed to the torah and halacha while avoiding ignorance and close-mindedness. While several voices in the Haredi world have affirmed their belief that Derech Eretz is a hora'as sha'ah, such as the Kaminetzer R' Boruch Ber Leibowitz, I believe that there was no better representative for Derech Eretz in our time than R' Yosef Breuer, who unabashedly refuted this claim and held that Derech Eretz is the only practical hashkafah that can sustain klal yisroel as we engage the world at-large and its riches while pursuing our own derech, in talmud torah and the practice of mitzvahs and halacha. Anyone familiar with the Seridei Esh, R' Weinberg, hy"d zt"l, the last Rosh Yeshiva of the Hildesheimer Yeshiva, knows that his own weltanschauung and the entire hashkafah of the yeshiva was based precisely on this premise- the minutia of halacha were kept, while a myriad of darchei halimud were used to have the best understanding of torah possible, including modern insights into rabbinical psychology and pastoral counseling, philosophy, science and geography, history, secular law, academic glances into the Talmud and literary methods of Tanach study, in the tradition of R' David Zvi Hoffman, a talmid of Rav Hirsch (who pioneered the inclusion of modern Jewish studies methods, wissenschaft dies Judentums, into the traditional derech of the yeshiva), which is carried on today in the work of R' Mordechai Breuer, a scion of the Hirsch dynasty, who utilizes an academic approach to Tanach that avoids Wellhausen's criticism, documentary hypothesis, which was debunked by Rav Hirsch as being false to history and archaeology. Rather than responding to the modern world with the ignorance and fundamentalism we see in the Haredi world nowadays, Rav Hirsch and the Yeshiva pursued knowledge so that they could respond to its challenges in a civil manner true to the Torah and our Mesorah, which embraces the pursuit of knowledge and responds to other ideas, even properly engaging them at times; we see this in the personalities of the Rambam and the Vilna Gaon (see Yehudah Levi's article in the Sefer "The Living Hirschian Legacy" on the topic), most remarkably, and even in the writings of Yitzchak Breuer, a scion of the Hirsch dynasty, who incorporated Immanuel Kant''s philosophy into his own torah (His writings were even part of the curriculum at Torah Vodaas in its early days, under Reb Shraga Feivel, although one could never see this in the contemporary Torah Vodaas). Rav Hirsch, I believe is a true gadol whose knowledge and hashkafah directly informs my life in innumerable ways and forms the basis for my outlook, as one who is intellectually open and halachically-committed. How sad is it that this derech is not preserved in the Frankfurt kehillah, but instead in the halls of Yeshiva University, Jewish studies departments in the modern university and within the institutions of Modern Orthodoxy, leaving Rav Hirsch's hashkafah and his legacy in danger of being relegated to the textbooks/ annals of history and the misinterpretations of the Haredi world, which lacks an understanding of the hashkafah in the first place and threatens to impose the standards of fundamentalist, secluded communities on a community based on a hashkafah of openness, intellectual integrity, and engagement with the world at-large. I urge the kehillah in Washington Heights to reconsider its approach and evaluate its direction in an era of increasing fundamentalism within Judaism, rachmono litzion, and perhaps reconsider what is truly taught and learned on the other side of Bennett Avenue, within Yeshiva University. I urge the KAJ community to reevaluate its matzav and I urge the entire Jewish community, Modern Orthodox, Chassidic and Litvish, to pursue study of Rav Hirsch's torah as a means of bridging all of us together, kulanu be echad. Daniel Sayani.
Hora'ath Shaah? To understand Rabbi S.R. Hirsch we have to try to see him against his historical context. He grew up in what we would call today a ba'ale batishe home which had not succumbed to the prevailing winds of flight from Yiddishkeit.. His father was a businessman, a Talmid chochom who provided his son with a Torah chinuch. Generally, there was a tolerance towards Jews and Hirsch grew up self confident and secure in his commitment to Yiddishkeit.
He was greatly inspired by his teachers; by Chacham Barneys in his hashkofos and by Rabbi Yaacov Ettlinger who was a Go'on Batora and with whom he studied for a number of years.
As an adolescent and young man he saw the devastation wrought by the reform but he firmly believed that there need not be a conflict between the prevailing culture and the emancipation and the world of Torah.
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It was part of his vision to present the eternal teachings of Torah to his contemporaries in a novel way. The result were the Nineteen Letters, written when he was only 22, followed by the Chorev which he had already planned at that time but published a few years later, in which he developed his view of the mission of Yisroel in the world.
But it probably never entered his mind that his approach was a Hora'ath Sha'ah. Torah Im Derech Eretz was the most practical way to live in that world. For him the secular is part of the human condition and has to finds its place within the scheme of Torah. Secular studies are not something to be shunned either and can find their place in an integrated Torah view. At times, there were some philosophical questions regarding the relationship between the two worlds but an alternative was never considered.
The litvish derech of (theoretically) "Torah exclusively" was not known in Germany at the time of S. R.Hirsch and also not in Hungary, which followed the derech of the Chasam Sofer who came from Frankfurt.
And since this derech was never rejected, one cannot speak of a Hora''ath Sha'ah. To my mind it is doubtful whether SRH would have changed his concept of "Derech Eretz" today. In general, "Derech Eretz" was considered to be engaging in business or some other occupations, as distinct from Rabbonus or other Klei Kodesh, types of parnossoh. Though in truth, Chazal meant a lot more by "Derech Eretz."
The reasons for the trend which has developed in the litvishe Yeshsivos over the past 40 years or so of "staying in learning" - both in Eretz Yisroel and in the US that what is referred to as the "Lakewood - style" - requires separate study. Whilst a cause for great pride, this has also raised many long term questions for the Klal and which have to be considered.
Please read my comment (2) on Rav Adlerstein's recent article. On the other hand both sides of this unfortunate controversy are also wrong on a point. Washington Heights is not Frankfort of the 1860s-1930s. The paradigm of torah learning is indeed Lakewood, on the other hand, burying our head in the sand concerning parnosa, contemporary challenges in secular knowledge and society, does not bode well for the majority of Jews. I characterized my approach as Neo-Hirschian, or Rational Charedi, which takes Hirsch's (The Rambam's as well) conceptual approach and adapts it for our times. the main thing is that both the Rational Charedim and the fundamentalist yeshiva Charedim should not harbor hatred for the other camp.
בס"ד I agree with the second message. My late husband (born 1922) learnt in the Rabbi Shimshon Raphuel School in Frankfürt am Main from the ages of 12 to 16 (when he fled to England as a Kindertransport child). He later lived in Washington Heights and davvened at KAJ/ Breuer's before he came to Australia. We tried to live Torah im Derekh Eretz. It was also what I learnt growing up. Being able to lead an active Jewish life with learning, for the chaps at least, every day before schule in the morning, between Minchah and Maariv and again in the evening, but following a profession (or a trade - but here we are mostly professionals) during the day. Those who are gifted to be on a really high madreiga and outstanding ability should make their lives all Torah, but they need someone to support them financially.
Without a majority of the community earning a livelihood, there is nothing to support those who wish to learn full time.
Also, to fully understand all the issues needed to pasken, it is necessary to have a reasonable level of maths, science, geography, history, medicine etc, plus good English for effective communication. I understand from some of my sons who have worked as mashgichim that, for instance, food science is really complicated nowadays and requires very specialist knowledge for a Rav to determine the kashruth of something.
I do think it is proper for all boys to learn at Yeshivah Gedolah before pursuing secular tertiary studies, and also for a newly-wed young man to spend nothing less than one year (preferably more) learning in Kollel, provided that this can be managed financially.
We are now blessed to be free of ghettos and to be free to pursue almost any profession or trade without discrimination. We just have to make sure that Torah is always first and that Derekh Eretz is merely the support for Torah.
Probably the best presentations of Torah im Derech Eretz were by Rabbi Shelomo Danziger in Living Hirschian Legacy and Rabbi Shimon Schwab in Elu v'Elu.
The former, in short, says that the principal of TIDE is that a Jew is also a (hu)man - Mensch-Yisrael is first a mensch! So if mankind has the mitzvah to pru u'rvu u'milu et ha'aretz, then so does the Jew! He quotes Rabbi Yechiel Yaakov Weinberg that for Rav Hirsch, Torah is the form and derech eretz is the matter - derech eretz is the "what" one does, and Torah is the instruction book, the legal code, on "how" to do it. Rav Hirsch often compares Torah law to natural law, and the comparison is exact: just as one's scientific and cultural endeavors must obey the laws of nature, so too they must obey the laws of Torah.
Rabbi Shimon Schwab in Elu v'Elu explicitly enunciates this important fact, that according to TIDE, pru u'rvu u'milu et ha'aretz DOES apply to the Jew too, whereas Torah-only says it does not.
These two important sources, and many others, are available at www dot stevens dot edu slash golem slash llevine slash rsrh
According to both, the life of a Jew is precisely this - "life" in all its fullness! Science, culture, literature, architecture, and every aspect of life in all its modern fullness, is to be appreciated by the Jew. Only, the Jew must ensure that the Torah dictates the way in which he does this.
A friend of mine has well put it: The Torah is like a VCR manual, and life is the VCR. The VCR doesn't work unless one has read the manual, but woe to the man who reads the manual and throws the VCR itself away!
As a "foster child" of Hirschian philosophy - like it or not, we in America (and even Lakewood) live a Hirschian existence. Where Hirsch managed to defeat his Reform, the Torah world was losing to the Maskillim when the Nazis, y"s, destroyed the European Torah (and Jewish) world. We have that Tzadik and Gaon, Rav S.R. Hirsch to thank for the success of Lakewood, et. al
Due to an oversight the name of G-d appears on the front page of the magazine section of our July 10 issue. Please be sure to dispose of it properly. Consult your local Orthodox rabbi for details.
