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September 23, 2014 / 28 Elul, 5774
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German Court Criminalizes Religious Circumcision

Religious Circumcision

Religious circumcision appears to be safe in Denmark following a government report declaring it is not dangerous
Photo Credit: Serge Attal/Flash90

A Cologne district court ruled on Tuesday that parents may not have their sons circumcised for religious reasons. The ruling has angered Muslims and Jews.

Non-medical circumcision is a “serious and irreversible interference in the integrity of the human body,” the court declared, essentially criminalizing religious circumcisions performed by Jews and Muslims, the Financial Times Deutschland newspaper reported.

The court now considers circumcision a crime of bodily harm.

The court decided that a legal guardian’s authority over a child does not allow them to subject the child to the procedure.

Also, the court rejected the notion that religious freedom, which is protected by law in Germany, should permit a guardian to make such decisions for the children in their care.

German doctors performing circumcisions that are not medically necessary could claim, until this ruling, that they were unaware that performing a circumcision is a crime, writes the Financial Times Deutschland. This is no longer the case, said.

Before the Cologne district court was a case against a Muslim doctor, who performed a circumcision on a four-year-old boy at his parents’ request. Two days later the child started to bleed and was taken to hospital.

German authorities launched a criminal investigation against the doctor. The original court trial ruled in favor of the doctor, but the local prosecutor appealed to the Cologne district court.

Tuesday’s decision sets a precedent, which may affect medical and religious practice across Germany.

Because of the involvement of religious rights in the case, experts have suggested the case will be further appealed to the Federal Constitutional Court.

Holm Putzke of the University of Passau, who has been advocating for years against circumcisions, told the Financial Times Deutschland that “the court has, in contrast to many politicians, not allowed itself to be scared by the fear of being criticized as anti-Semitic or opposed to religion.”

He added: “This decision could not only affect future legal rulings but in the best case it could lead to a change of consciousness among the affected religions when it comes to respecting the basic rights of children.”

The possibility of a legal ban on circumcisions is causing outrage among Jewish and Muslim organizations in Germany.

“The Court’s decision is unacceptable and gravely violates religious freedom,” says Rabbi Aryeh Goldberg, vice president of the Rabbinical Center of Europe. “The decision is contrary to human rights charter of the European Union, to which the German legal system is committed, and undermines the basic right to worship in the German Constitution.”

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226 Responses to “German Court Criminalizes Religious Circumcision”

  1. Jason Maas says:

    If you were a baby having the most sensitive part of his body cut off in some strange religious ritual you had no understanding of, I'm absolutely certain that the person you'd consider a "nut" would be the man with the blade cutting your penis. If you were an adult and someone tried to cut part of your penis off against your will, hey would *definitely* be considered a nut, even criminal. Babies want to be held, fed, loved, and cared for, not cut. And they deserve that simple right.

  2. Jay Lapidus says:

    Well, Charlie, maybe the 2 trolls that just found you will answer your question.

  3. Steve says:

    Note my comments above about all the intactivist nuts parroting the same Ha’aretz article that cites a non-scientific “informal” study.

  4. Ari Fuld says:

    How much ignorance and anti Jewish tradition can there be from once post. To the Gentiles here, I have nothing to say to you. Not because I disrespect you but we have a LONG history of you not understanding me and my religion. I am just happy this time you are bashing me online and not with pogroms or worse.

    For those Jews or Israelis who have sacrificed their life for the cause of canceling, stripping or prove irrelevance of Jewish law and tradition, you will lose.

    In every generation there have been Jews who have tried with all their might to bash Judaism. Some of those Jews over the generations sometimes did a better job and with more effort than the Gentiles who have despised us forever. However, unfortunately for you, we have survived and they are no where to be found ( Maybe in the Haifa and Tel Aviv Circumcision resource centers).

    Lynn it always surprises me when people take time out to write and have absolutely ZERO knowledge on the matter they are commenting about.
    The first mention of Mohel is in Tractate of Shabbat page 156 A! The act of circumcision is mentioned in the Tanach (Genesis 17:9-14) as removal of the foreskin not a snip as you comfortably translated using your comfort dictionary.

    You all can disagree with the Torah but don't even attempt to try to change what it says to match your comfort zone.
    In terms of female mutilation? YES! That is mutilation! Why because the definition of right and wrong for a Jewish person is defined by G-d not by society or Lynn's or the circumcision resources opinions.
    I know you all think it is ridiculous for me to believe in morals from above BUT in your world where there is no GOD I don't really have to care what you think since it's all opinions anyway!
    Personally I am more frightened of a world that leaves the definition of morality up to man. A world that 60 years ago calls abortion murder and today says it's pro choice! All in the name of humanity of course.Then again since it is Germany that is saving humanity in this case I don't think I have to explain just how dangerous it can be to leave moral definitions up to man.

  5. Yori Yanover says:

    Jason Maas — Kindly back your claim with some real facts or take it back. What do you mean by "many"? More than 3?

  6. Yori Yanover says:

    Jason Maas — The reason is that boys' "genital mutilation" is sanctioned by my religion, in fact, stressed urgently by it. There are several areas which I cannot practice without it. Now, sinec the vast, vast, mega-vast majority of Jewish religious circumcisions result in no harm whatsoever to the child, it is my inalienable right in any democratic country to practice it.

    There is NO sanctioning of female circumcision anywhere in the Koran. So by now you've used my website to spread two lies: one about "many Israelis" opting against circumcision, and now about the Muslim religion promoting FC.

  7. Yori Yanover says:

    How about You shall not murder — it stems from a profoundly religious decree. You're in for dumping that one, too, Cyneva? In Jewish law the two commandments — circumcise your male child and do not murder are based on the same God and the same book. Why should I rely on YOUR judgment as to which of them to obey and which to discard? What right have you to dictate to ME what aspects of my religion to uphold?

    That's cultural colonialism on a grand scale.

  8. Jason Maas says:

    Yori, as an Arabic speaker and one well versed in the Islamic religion and the Koran, I know full well and good that the *Koran* does not condone *either* male or female circumcision. That rationale is found outside of the Koran. Yet you will find that it is just as strictly adhered to and sited by Muslims who insist, as do Jews, that circumcision is mandatory for boys (and for girls according to those who justify female circumcision). I'm the first person to disagree with them and point out the fallacy of that "logic." They disagree, though, and the result is that almost all Muslim boys and a majority of Muslim girls in countries like Egypt get cut.

    As to your point about the number of Israelis not circumcising, I provided a link to one news item that offered numbers. You do the math. It's certainly more than 3. Maybe more than 3%. I don't think it's disingenuous to call that "many" when you multiply that by the entire Israeli population.

    And again, to whatever degree *you* find that circumcision is necessary for *your* religious practice, *you* are more than welcome to have yourself circumcised. NO 8-day old infant, however, has any clue about religion, "god", scripture etc. You have no right to permanently alter the body of an unconsenting child in the name of a religion they have no notion of. You can perform whatever semantic games and tired rationalisations you want to try and justify the unjustifiable. Saying "It says so in the Bible" is probably the oldest justification for oppression and abuse there is. When reason fails, there's always scripture. Thank you for proving my point.

  9. Stephen Leavitt says:

    The like being called "Intactivists".
    They've got an entire Aryan-like cult going on.

  10. Natan Epstein says:

    BAMMMMM ….. WELL said …. BIG LIKE !

  11. Jason Maas says:

    Yori, the Torah also commands us to kill those who work on the sabbath, adulterers, etc. etc. etc. There's no arguing with it. Not at all. It's all there in black ink. No Exceptions. Later rabbis were able to lawyer things around and to find/make exceptions, but it doesn't change the fact that those laws are in there. So if you're all-or-nothing about it, you have to acknowledge the rules you don't like as well as the ones you do.

    In the end, we ALL pick and choose which rules to follow, and which ones to conveniently ignore. And that's OK, because we're adults and it's our right to make such choices. Again, though, you have no right to make permanent, life-altering, body-altering decisions for unconsenting children who cannot make those choices, at least where religion is concerned. That's not "cultural colonialism." It's just fair. It's protecting the inalienable right of the Individual to make that decision for him or herself. Yes, I know it's awfully post-Enlightenment of me to invoke such notions as "rights", "the individual", and "choice." But we live in a world based on civil society and secular laws now, not Bronze Age superstition.

  12. Jason Maas says:

    Most of the intactivists I know are Jews. I know you don't consider us "real Jews" but I've got news for you. You're not "real Jews" either, at least according to someone who's more frum than you. And there's *always* someone who is. It's like a fun little pecking order. You can berate non-cutting Jews, someone else can berate you for shaving your beard, someone will judge them in turn for driving on shabbos, etc. etc. and so on. That's how you create a society based on fear, judgment, and oppression instead of one based on morality, reason, choice, and individuality.

  13. Natan Epstein says:

    But here is the difference , if i have a baby born into my life he is my son and i need to educate him and my education is one of religion and that's how i will educate my kids because i believe in religion (THAT YOU CANT TAKE AWAY FROM ME !!) , whether you like it or not i will be circumcision my baby's god willing and i will do it with pride !!

  14. Yori Yanover says:

    Jason — If we took everything you know about the difference between the written Torah and the Oral Tradition, it would make for a handsome postage stamp.

    I don't know where you live, but if it's in the U.S., then your system is the largest slave holding system on the planet, with close to 3 million citizens in incarcerated.

    You also live in a civilization where 45 million people are barred from medical facilities for inability to pay.

    You also live in a country where annually 55 thousand people are murdered by their neighbors.

    You live in a a country that incinerated 100 thousand Iraqis for a crime committed by 19 Saudis.

    Way to go, secular civilization. Looks to me like you could stand a couple religious notes about being made in the image of God and being your brother's keeper.

    Every one who was looking to expand their ego-based agenda, went after religious Jews first. Because we have the chutzpah to look you in the eye and say, No, you may not.

    Our rabbis didn't lawyer anything, they simply operate within a brilliant system of updating and matching the written law to the changing technological, economic, and political circumstances. What's superstitious is your thin understanding of an intellectual effort lasting 3500 years and still going. You have nothing that even comes close.

  15. Yori Yanover says:

    Like it or not, children's rights are governed by their competent guardians. Children are not permitted to make those choices on their own, especially at the tender age of 8 days.

    I am responsible for my child's religious needs as I see them. If you believe my religious practice is illegal, file a complaint. But what happened in Germany was that the court completely ignored the German constitution when he made his arbitrary decision. He will be reversed by a higher court, most likely on the federal level.

    But if parents are not endowed with the right to make ALL moral decisions for their children, who is? The state? Really? I'd rather have Lord of the Flies…

  16. Yori Yanover says:

    We have a dual freaking posting system, to avoid spam. Also, some comments stay on Facebook and don't migrate here.

  17. Jason Maas says:

    Yori, your rights to govern the religious life of your child only go so far. They are not absolute. Try killing your child for working on the sabbath and then justifying it with scripture to see how far that gets you. Or try selling your daughter to her husband the way the Torah lays out. Yes, you are right that, right now, parents do have the right to genitally mutilate sons. They do not have the right to do so to daughters even though, as I pointed out earlier, people who genitally mutilate girls feel just as religiously obligated to do so as those who do it to boys. If you have any doubts, try banning female circumcision in Egypt. You will hear *all* the same arguments in favour of that as you are making in defense of male circumcision. Indeed, you might be able to learn a few things.

  18. Jason Maas says:

    Oh, I agree with everything you say about the US. But the US is not a secular democracy. It's a racist theocracy masquerading as democracy. The US is what happens when all the religious superstition you believe becomes rationalised by supposedly secular law. That's why *every single* piece of progress made anywhere in the developed world, including in Israel where I have also lived, has gone *against* what it says in the Bible, not in congruence with it. The abolition of slavery, women's rights, Gay rights, animal rights, workers' rights, etc. etc. are all due to civil, secular society, not anything from scripture. Yes, thankfully a few enlightened rabbis can be credited with some Enlightenment thinking as well. And they often based some of that enlightenment on scripture, which is fair because there is a little enlightenment in there. But then we're back to following some scripture at the expense of other scripture. No one follows it all, thankfully, and the most humane societies on the planet are the ones who have largely abandoned it all.

  19. Jason Maas says:

    Educate him all you like. Just don't cut off part of his penis. Damn, how hard is that to understand. If you can't see the difference between *reading* scripture and doing *everything* it says, then you probably shouldn't be trusted with either a Torah or a child in your hands.

  20. Jason Maas says:

    Natan, why not leave the choice up to him? I mean, why not? If you educate him, as you say, and if he agrees with you, then wouldn't even be *more* powerful and important for him to decide for himself to be cut? And if he decides it's not important to him, then you can say you did your best but that truly the choice was between him and god.

  21. Natan Epstein says:

    Because as i said that i have faith , and my faith commands me (regardless of what you think is right or wrong ) to commit the circumcision on my baby when he is 8 days old (the reason for him being 8 days old is because he cannot feel anything in that age or remember it and to give time for the mother to regenerate her energy ) , now i don't need to explain to you my religious practices i have every right to educate my kids and preform harmless acts (there is no harm in circumcision ) , im not imposing on you any of these laws only on my new born!!

  22. Jason Maas says:

    Where do you get the misinformation that he "cannot feel anything"? That is totally false. In fact, the latest research shows that babies likely feel *more* pain than adults and have even *more* sensitive nervous systems. Again, though, you are explaining *your* religious beliefs. Your child will not have those beliefs. You are saying that you don't want anyone imposing their beliefs on you, but you are imposing your beliefs on another person.

  23. Hugh Intactive says:

    Stephen Leavitt · "Aryan-like cult"? Nonsense. The Intactivist movement is mainly fuelled by men who bitterly resent that they were circumcised before they could resist, whether for religion or quack medicine.

  24. Natan Epstein says:

    because i dont feel it anymore or ever , I DON'T REMEMBER MY PENIS BEING CHOPPED OFF AND NO ONE ELSE REMEMBERS IT AS WELL !!!

    your just here to put your beliefs on us , to force us to think like you !!
    i don't think that it hurts , i dont see eye to eye with you on this matter , sorry go find somewhere else to force your views on !!

  25. Jason Maas says:

    This whole discussion reminds me a lot of the debate about spanking. It used to be normal for parents, teachers, police, and any adult to have the right to spank and even beat children. And many (most?) people who did so defended that practice with scripture. Now the rights of children *not* to be beaten are more important in many places than the rights of adults to beat children. Even the rights of parents are being limited to prevent them from spanking children, or at least doing so severely. Society has progressed. ALL the same arguments we hear about circumcision we heard about spanking. Thankfully, despite the cries of "persecution" and "parental rights" that we heard with spanking, we are moving in the right direction to protect children from bodily harm. Circumcision is simply the next issue where this same logic is being applied.

  26. Yori Yanover says:

    Austin Finney — Ge. 17:12 is where the ancient book mentions (*&&ING WORD ABOUT CIRCUMCISION quite specifically.

  27. Yori Yanover says:

    Jason Maas — I'm not responsible for Muslims and whatever they do to their daughters. In both my home countries, the U.S. and Israel, male C. is legal, Female C. is illegal. Both work for me.

    I won't begrudge you if you try to start a drive to change the law. But getting a judge to write new law in one afternoon is counter productive. It will just be reversed.

  28. Yori Yanover says:

    Do a similar ceremony for shoplifting and we're even. Baruch ata hashem elokeinu melech haolam who will accept our transgressions and let us walk away with this lovely piece of jewelry so we will beautify (enter Hebrew name) ________ in His honor.

    Works with candy bars, too.

  29. Yori Yanover says:

    I didn't see your link, but if it's to the Haaretz story, we really should base our debate on something a bit more reliable and less biased.

    Here's a quote from a Ynet story (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3333564,00.html)

    Dr. Schenker presented data which show that almost all men in Israel have been circumcised, apart from a small percentage among adult new immigrants.

    "In a country like Israel, in which about 100 percent of men have been circumcised, there is great significance in stressing the message that circumcision reduces the risk of being infected with HIV, but does not fully guarantee that. One must not be complacent."

  30. Yori Yanover says:

    As an advocate of non-violent parenting and a parent myself who never raised my hand on my child, I beg to differ. The decision to spank reflects a failure on the part of a parent to establish a strong communication with their child and the result is frustration. Perhaps a case could be made, according to some, that when it comes to imprinting the notion of grave danger, the spanking improves a child's memory. I doubt it very much. There is also a view that one may only hit a child if it is done without anger. That's also bull****, as far as I'm concerned, but I can see the point.

    There's also the fact that parents who don't hit their children can be just as baffled about what to do with them, how to get them to do stuff.

    All of that goes into the art of communicating with our children. It has nothing to do with a commandment from God.

    I will grant you that without the divine decree, circumcision is one barbaric thing to do to a child. I would not have dome it on my own, that's for sure/ What am I, a monster?

    But I accept that this is a huge mitzvah from God, and on that basis I uphold it. I think that if someone does it to their child without believing in God, they should see a psychiatrist. But to stop me with the power of the state from fulfilling God's command is simple fascism.

  31. Dee Resnick Forlano says:

    My mother felt that way when she had my brother's genitals mutilated in the name of her religion – by all accounts, the mohel did a great job…unfortunately, my mother went to her grave without a a goodbye from my brother since he refused to speak to her after he discovered what she had done to him for a deity he doesn't believe in. She was pushing him to do it to his son and when he researched it, he was furious. She refused to see the error in her thinking and continued to defend what she had done. She never met her 3 grandsons and never saw my brother again. The information is out there, your children will know what was done to them and what they lost in the name of your religion…

  32. Leah Urso says:

    Israeli doctors are helping Africans learn about circumcisian t

  33. Natan Epstein says:

    Dee Resnick Forlano all i hear here is antisemitic crap in the name of liberalism , this is a faith who i had to have the operation and my kids will have it as well , you have no right to tell me what to do !!

  34. Leah Urso says:

    To help prevent AIDS. A Jew enters the covenant through circumcism

  35. Yori Yanover says:

    Jason — You continue to misrepresent the truth. No one is berating Jews who do not circumcise their sons. The problem here is that it is the other way around altogether — your side is trying to keep ME from following my divine command. It's not about what I think about a fellow Jews or vice versa. It's about an instrument of the state turning on my religious practice because it doesn't complement its sensibilities. That's the very essence of fascistic and colonialist behavior.

  36. Jason Maas says:

    Ah yes, "antisemitism." How is it "antisemitic" to want to give Jewish boys the same rights as Jewish girls not to have parts of our penises cut off? How is it "antisemitic" to argue that Jews should have the simple right to choose how we will celebrate our *own* religious beliefs without having things done to us by parents, family, and religious leaders? It's not "antisemitic", Natan. We're talking about simple, basic human rights here and freedom of choice. *Your* rights stop where the body of another person begins. That's not "antisemitic." That's reality.

  37. Yori Yanover says:

    I have absolutely nothing to say about it, other than there's a day and night difference between a Torah mandated divine command, spelled out precisely in both the written and the oral Torah, and an Africasn and Arab practice that dates back to well before the Koran. One is an established religious custom, the other a superstition.

  38. Dee Resnick Forlano says:

    Anti Semitic re herring – I'm Jewish! My brother was raised Jewish and mutilated Jewish. He agrees that my parents didn't have the right to do this to him. It's the main reason he left the religion. He has trouble with a religion that requires a blood sacrifice be preformed against a non consenting person. He's right. So Natan – How many of the other 613 mitvahs that apply to you and are possible without the temple do you preform – or is it only the ones that are convenient? Like the ones that don't harm you, but harm others? Do you still stone woman that you suspect of adultery? If not, don't be a hypocrite and stop mutilating babies and calling it religious. You don't get to pick and choose.

  39. Jason Maas says:

    That's what is commonly called a "distinction without a difference." Your "divine command" is what everyone who hasn't drunk the Kool-Aid sees as superstition.

  40. Natan Epstein says:

    you are an Otto anti Semite because your taking one experiences and throwing it on everybody else , and to me doing all the mitzvot i do what i can as much as i can , i for one am totally fine with the brit being done to me , im proud of it … im comfortable with it …

  41. Dee Resnick Forlano says:

    hmmm…no beard….simple one that might cause you some discomfort and you don't even do that – I call hypocrisy. Debate lost. Insert coins to play again

  42. Dee Resnick Forlano says:

    oh…and not Otto – I didn't convert – I just stopped

  43. Jason Maas says:

    Yori, I think cutting the genitalia of an unconsenting child in the name of a faith they have no belief in is the very *essence* of fascism and colonialism. I know *you* don't see it that way; oppressors never see oppression that way until someone, usually the Sate these days, steps in and says, "Stop!." Like I pointed out before, EVERY piece of progress made in any area of human rights and social justice in the last few centuries has entailed limiting the rights of some in the interest of others. For better or for worse, when women get more rights, men lose some. When Gays get more rights, straights lose some. When children get rights, parents lose some as well. EVERY time a vulnerable population receives protections and rights they deserve, those oppressing them lose the ability to do the oppressing they have enjoyed for ages — usually sanctioned by some religion or cultural norm. Circumcision, like spanking, wife beating, Gay-bashing, or slave-owning is simply the next issue that society is having this debate about. Feel free to join the right side of history any time. The future is waiting. Or you can stay camped out with the wife-beaters and slave-owners.

  44. Natan Epstein says:

    where did you read that there is a need to grow a beard ?? LOL now i can see the self hate , you see religious Jews as people who where beards long noses and horns coming out of their heads … pathetic !

  45. Dee Resnick Forlano says:

    It's one of the 613 – do you not even know them? I didn't dictate or assume the beard – your god did. Read please…I'm done being baited. I can't discuss the rules with you if you don't even know them. A simple google search for "613 mitvah" will help educate you about your own religion. I'm sorry you don't actually understand why you do the things you do.

  46. Natan Epstein says:

    marxists and anarchists (like democrats) believe that the definition of "right and just" is what they do. Therefore, everything they do is acceptable…and anything they disagree with is unacceptable.

  47. Dee Resnick Forlano says:

    Here's a link – in case you're not sure how to do this – http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm see # 345

  48. Jason Maas says:

    And just like you, the Taliban or the heredim spitting on young girls they think are dressed immodestly think everything they do is ordered by "god."

  49. Steve Clow says:

    This isn't about singling out religions, this is about protecting children. I would think protecting Jewish children too would be a good thing. The court is considering the rights of it's youngest citizens, so they can grow up to be their own man, and a Jewish man who is intact is still a Jewish man. That can never change, no matter what mark is "missing" from him. This is the best possible decision for all, and I'm happy all my Jewish brothers and sisters can adapt to a happier future for all.

    Shalom friends.

  50. Natan Epstein says:

    But there is a majority of religious Jews in Israel who are against them …. Now there is no harm in my brit , my mohel did a great job and i don't feel any pain or uncomfortable experiences actually the opposite i actually cant see my self with foreskin , it disgusts me ..

  51. Dee Resnick Forlano says:

    I'm thrilled for you – does that lessen my brother's pain? Does it give him back a valuable part of his body? You have no idea what a baby is going to want as an adult. Don't ever presume you do.

  52. Lynn Reed says:

    The above was written & sent to us from a rabbi in 1984
    Stealing jewelry or candy bars does not alter a boy for life!!!

  53. Natan Epstein says:

    oy ah broch you just dont get it , you go back to the beginning ………..no it doesn't lessen his experiences , its tragic i never said it isn't but it isn't a statistic that can prove why its bad for everybody … this is a faith …. most kids born to parents who gave them correct faith education will follow the parents foot steps (it dosnt matter if its brain washing etc … because you brain wash your kids to letting them dress however they want ….. you teach your kids that they cant leave high school because they need to get a dagree because you have decided that right ? what if they dont want to go to school ? )

    mister hypocrite shhhh !

    im going to shape the way my kids think because i know they will appreciate it …( most kids do !)

  54. Jason Maas says:

    Natan, you lost 15 to 20 sq.inches of sensitive, nerve-filled tissue from the most sensitive part of your body. That's about the same amount that girls lose in female circumcision. Many men lose the frenulum when they are circumcised. That is one of the most sensitive parts of a male's anatomy. It is gone on many circumcised men. You don't know that though, you don't know what you are missing because you lost it when you were 8 days old. You have adapted, but you are still missing part of your body.

  55. Steve Clow says:

    Lynn Reed Not to mention conscience of right and wrong is something you can teach without amputation, religious or otherwise. My religion taught me a couple moral lessons, but it was the guidance of my parents that influenced my morality. Being cut wasn't what did it for me. A doctor coerced my parents to make that decision, when the decision should have been mine to refuse or accept.

  56. Lynn Reed says:

    Natan Epstein "BUT in your world where there is no GOD"? Really because I question what has been done for 3500 years (which is debatable) then there is no GOD in my world? Rabbis have always taught to question everything, which is the hallmark of Judaism that leaves room for growth and change. Well it is time to stop cutting baby boys and it is clearly time for you to look at why you feel the need to harm a child to be a JEW!

  57. Lynn Reed says:

    Yori Yanover no one is telling you how to practice your faith, just stop cutting baby boys, and let them decide if they wish to follow that mitzvah & choose to practice when they are of age.

  58. Lynn Reed says:

    I wonder if the Mohelim fanatic "trolls" are in full force here too. Yori is that your problem? You losing business (Brit Milahs) over this?

    Just wondering as there is also alot of money to be lost in the catering business too & usually things that people are so adamant about losing involve money too….just wondering.
    Baby seal clubbers had issues with that ban as well..they lost jobs!

    You see I have no dog in this race, only baby boys who grow up to be men who are scarred and cannot have normal sex lives, and all because they needed their "papers"

    I am so sad for my husband that he cannot feel what he would had he not been cut!

    Also cutting has been proven to interfere with breastfeeding, which is most important to the health and development of human beings.

  59. Jason Maas says:

    Oh, I have no doubt that, just like all the other pieces of social progress I've mentioned, cases about circumcision will go back and forth for ages. The debate will rage on. But that's the point. What is accomplished in courts and through laws is only one small part of it. It's what happens in the court of public opinion, and all the little debates that happen among parents and families that matter just as much. And that's where we're winning, too. Not all the time, and not nearly enough for my satisfaction. But enough. And it's only the beginning.

    The world is changing, Yori. It is becoming less and less acceptable to do things things to unconsenting people in the name of religion. It is becoming less and less acceptable to inflict pain on children to punish or "educate" or indoctrinate them. It is becoming more common to limit the rights of parents and priests in the name of protecting the rights of the vulnerable. For every few steps forward there is always a step or two back. But progress marches forward nonetheless.

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