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August 30, 2016 / 26 Av, 5776
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Friday the Rabbi Read Isaiah 53

Few chapters in the Jewish Bible have been used more vigorously and cleverly by Christian missionaries than this one, which happens to be a wonderful prophecy about the vindication of the Jewish nation.

A Jewish olah kissing the ground on her first moment back in the home of her people. This is the essence of Isaiah 53 – a prophetic poem of the national redemption of God's children while the nations of the world are watching enviously.

A Jewish olah kissing the ground on her first moment back in the home of her people. This is the essence of Isaiah 53 – a prophetic poem of the national redemption of God's children while the nations of the world are watching enviously.
Photo Credit: Guy Assayag /Flash90

In this morning’s video pick, a recording of the late Christopher Hitchens discussing the inherently immoral notion of someone dying for someone else’s sins, a kind of spiritual cannibalism, really, reader Alex Rivera entered the comment: “I take it the editor has never read Isaiah 53…”

Since Isaiah 53 is being used as one of the foundation strategies of missionary tricksters in seeking proof for their pagan ideas in our holy scriptures, I decided to respond immediately, lest this drivel have a chance to spread further.

Now, this article is directed at both Jewish and Christian readers, as an attempt to set the record straight. If you’re a Jew, I expect this should satisfy any doubt you may have had regarding the most remote possibility that the missionary claims bear any validity; if you’re Christian, I hope that this would serve as an opening to explore further the deep seated errors of your faith.

Isaiah 53 is an amazing piece of poetry, besides bearing a stirring prophetic message. I cannot understand how one would be able to get it without a thorough knowledge of Hebrew – even if he or she don’t have preconceived notions about the Christian message. This is precisely why the missionaries are able to fool our Jewish brothers and sisters who aren’t fluent in Hebrew – but now they can all come to the JewishPress.com and see the Jewish version of Isaiah 53.

To start, the original Hebrew texts had no chapters, and we read them based on their content, referring to each as a distinct episode, or a distinct poem, with their own cohesive content.

The segment in Isaiah 53 actually starts in Isaiah 52:13, flowing into Isaiah 53:1:

52:13 goes: “Behold, My slave has become wise, he has risen and become superior and very high.”

The nation of Israel, in the singular, is called God’s slave throughout the book of Isaiah. In one particular verse, Isaiah 41:8, the text refers to our nation using both names of our patriarch: “And you Israel, my slave Jacob whom I have chosen, seed of Abraham my lover.”

Both Isaiah and Jeremiah use the term “My slave Jacob” six times, four of them with the Divine’s call to “fear not.”

In both cases, the prophets are borrowing the names of our forefather Jacob-Israel, whom God addresses with that calming call on the eve of his journey down to Egypt, in the context of his becoming a great nation, the nation of Israel:

“He said, I am God, the God of your father, fear not going down to Egypt for I shall turn you into a great nation there.” (Gen. 46:3)

So that there’s no doubt in any Hebrew reader’s mind that the prophetic poem in Isaiah 52-53 is referring to us, the nation of Israel, children of Jacob. Nothing here about some guy telling folks he is the messiah.

The scene described by Isaiah is that of the nations of the world, kings and all, who are reviewing the progress of the nation of Israel—very much the way they do today, when 9 out of 9 UN resolutions are against Israel, when the president of the United States and his secretary of state cannot tear themselves away from discussing the extra bathroom the Berkowitzes wish to construct in their East Jerusalem apartment, when the faraway, impoverished nation of Iran is devoting $175 billion, at last count, to build a weapon that would finally annihilate all the Jews of Israel – this is precisely what the prophet describes, this obsession of the entire world with the children of God.

And so, God shares His own report with them:

52:13 “Behold, My slave has become wise, he has risen and become superior and very high.”

God proceeds to describe our history:

52:14-15 “Just as many were appalled by your appearance, saying: he is so disfigured, worse than any man, and his form worse than any human being, so he will humiliate many nations, kings will stand speechless over him, for that which had not been told them they’ll see and that which they had not heard they’ll ponder.”

The prophet continues:

53:1 “Who would believe what we have heard, and to whom has God’s arm been revealed?”

Yori Yanover

About the Author: Yori Yanover has been a working journalist since age 17, before he enlisted and worked for Ba'Machane Nachal. Since then he has worked for Israel Shelanu, the US supplement of Yedioth, JCN18.com, USAJewish.com, Lubavitch News Service, Arutz 7 (as DJ on the high seas), and the Grand Street News. He has published Dancing and Crying, a colorful and intimate portrait of the last two years in the life of the late Lubavitch Rebbe, (in Hebrew), and two fun books in English: The Cabalist's Daughter: A Novel of Practical Messianic Redemption, and How Would God REALLY Vote.

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109 Responses to “Friday the Rabbi Read Isaiah 53”

  1. Joshua Lim says:

    THE RABBI HAS SPOKEN!!!!! ((I love Jewish culture 🙂 ))

  2. So early Jewish sages got it wrong too then ???

  3. It’s shame so many people read Is 53 to make it a weapon against God’s People. Have many Jewish lives have been destroyed by Christians because of their lack of understanding. Thanks Yori. It’s time to stop the missionary nonsense in a concerted effort.

  4. How about Psalm 22 ? From Jewish Publication Society. 22:14 They open wide their mouth against me, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

    22:15 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint; my heart is become like wax; it is melted in mine inmost parts.

    22:16 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my throat; and Thou layest me in the dust of death.

    22:17 For dogs have encompassed me; a company of evil-doers have inclosed me; like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet.

    22:18 I may count all my bones; they look and gloat over me.

    22:19 They part my garments among them, and for my vesture do they cast lots.

    22:20 But Thou, O the Lord, be not far off; O Thou my strength, hasten to help me.

  5. Ah Ezr says:

    I challenge the writer of this article to a public or an online debate on this passage based on the Hebrew language and the structural, historical and even rabbinical perspectives of Isaiah 53. Yori Yanover, in addition to have a big ego should put his money where his mouth is.

  6. Ray Watson says:

    It sure is hard to fight against the truth of Scriptures. I wonder Y Jews and Gentiles don't just give up and say, Yes Isa 53 IS talking about Messiah and no one else Notice the word HE , not the land HE died in my place to take my sin, GOD in the flesh ……GOD is able to do all the things that we think HE can't.
    Have you met a Christian Jew yet? I have , several. By the way, not all Gentiles are Christians

  7. Stan Levy says:

    Mindy, what about Psalms 22..Please be more specific 🙂

  8. Just read it , you'll see!

  9. Stan Levy says:

    Dear Ken, sometimes people will not do enough study and research and then they miss some important information which I would like to share with you and hopefully you will do your due diligence to check out what I am saying.
    Regarding your claim that Isaiah 53 must be speaking about Israel because G-d is using the singular pronouns and thus it cannot be about Israel and must only be about Jesus.
    G-d speaks to and of Israel in a few ways..In the singular, in the plural and in both the singular and plural in the same verse or verses.
    Here are some examples of G-d speaking of Israel in the singular and thus collectively as if one person.
    Isaiah 41:8-9, 44:1-2, 44:21, 45:4, 48:20, Isaiah 49:3..(notice that these verses that precede and envelope chapter 53 refer to Israel in the singular as being G-d's servant). There are many more verses in Tanach which speak of Israel in the singular and a word study would show you this..
    Often G-d speaks to and of Israel in both the singular and the plural and let me give you just a couple examples to make my point..
    Hosea 11:1-2, 5…..Isaiah 43:10…Isaiah 49:3,7,8
    Ken, think about the history of the Jewish people over the past 3300 years..There are no peoples on earth that have suffered at the hands of the gentiles as the Jews have had to endure.
    Isaiah 53 is both a prophecy of Israel's future redemption from exile and an admission by the gentile kings of the world of their guilt in the way Israel was treated under their stewardship over the past 1800 plus years.
    Please read again rithiegugg's posting and explanation of how Isaiah 53 should be understood when the Hebrew is translated accurately..
    I look forward to your's or anyone else's response.

  10. Stan Levy says:

    correction.must be speaking about jesus..

  11. Vladimir Weissman says:

    So, what else is new? What's so strange in the fact that Jews and Christians don't agree on theology? Let us just accept that as a fact of life and move on with important things, like the onslaught on Christians in the Moslem lands (Jews left long ago), and the deligimization of Israel by just about anybody, including the aberation that these days maskerades as the US Government… Let us also acknowledge that modern Christian nations, primarily the Protestant ones, have given the Jews the right to settle and prosper. The Jews have thanked them by making a contribution to their host nations, and to the civilized world, many times larger than their numbers in the general population. One in five Nobel laureats are/were Jewish. Less than 3 in one thousand people on Earth are Jewish. Jews have excelled everywhere they were allowed to work and contribute. This is, alas, also true in the evil endeavors of Socialism and Communism. In that regard one almost hoped that the Jews were not so smart and efficient… Jews in the West (and a substantial minority in Israel) are leftists. Like they don't want to part with their utopias… That might be changing. That, at least, is my hope…

  12. Stan Levy says:

    Mindy, since i am brand new to this thread, it may be that we are in agreement or not in agreement since I do not know where you are coming from with that statement about Psalms 22.
    Pslams 22 is clearly about Israel with David speaking on behalf of his people, using song and poetry to cry out to G-d about the plight of his people who are surrounded by their enemies.
    The chapter clearly indicates that David is asking G-d to help his people as He has helped them in the past..Israel is not looking to die as it was with Jesus who knew he was to die on the cross.
    Psalms clearly depicts David and his people pleading to G-d to come to their rescue..
    Did anyone die in chapter 22? the answer is No!!!!!
    David used metaphorical and poetic language in this Psalm and the Jewish reader would instinctively know that.
    In several verses David used animal motif to describe his enemies, i.e, bulls, lions, dogs, oxen..
    Psalms 22:17(16) in the Christian bible is a gross mistranslation of the Hebrew..The Hebrew word "k'ariy" means like/as a lion, not they pierced..This can be verified by going to Isaiah 38:13 where you will find the same exact Hebrew word and is translated there as "as a lion"…
    It is important to note that according to Christian teaching, prophecy is found in the Tanach (OT) and fulfillment of prophecy in the New Testament..You will not find Psalms 22:16 quoted anywhere the New Testament as fulfillment of prophecy which means that the gospel writers did not believe that Psalms 22:16 says "they pierced my hands and my feet"..If they did it would have behooved them to quotes that verse verbatim.

  13. Verse 8, "For the transgression of MY PEOPLE he was punished." If the servant is Israel then who is MY PEOPLE?

  14. Many great rabbis before Rashi said Isaiah 53 speaks of messiah. The Gaon Vilna said Isaiah 53 speaks of messiah. Rabbi Schneerson said Isaiah 53 speaks of messiah and the nation.

  15. I just think it's sad that we can't get past history, and start having some open discussions….http://margaretannharvey.blogspot.ca/2013/08/albatross.html

  16. Kapora: The transference and atonement of sin by an innocent and holy substitute is a fundamental truth in Torah that can not be altered by anyone.

  17. Indeed the life and suffering of the Jewish people and messiah do mirror each other. Messiah is a faithful high priest who must be acquainted with and empathetic to the trials and weaknesses of HIS PEOPLE.

  18. Well,I could not disagree more with the conclusions of this writer (Jesus had no children in His lifetime, but-all Christans are His "children" by faith). Can also see, though, why most of Jesus's own people do not accept Him as their Messiah-too many Christians beat the Jewish people over the head (figuratively if not literally) with this as well as other verses… To believers, this is the perfect picture of our Messiah. One day, though, we are told ALL will know just who He is-those who currently believe as well as those, both Jewish and non-Jewish, who do not!

  19. Stan Levy says:

    Really?? are you sure about that statement? Please explain Ezekiel 18:19-25…If a righteous person dies and his community receives atonement because of his death, is that all there is to it? Aren't you missing something?? If the righteous person dies and brings about mourning in the community and causes the community to reflect on their own lives and they repent, it is the repentance that is bringing about atonement.

  20. Stan Levy says:

    David..It is interesting that the Jews of Judaism do read Rashi, The Vilna Gaon and Rabbi Schneerson, but don't come to the same understanding as those who are NT believers.
    Let me ask you a question…Does Rashi believe the messiah has already come? How about the Vilna Gaon and Rabbi Schneerson??
    Do you truthfully know the methodology of the Rabbi's? Are you aware that Judaism does not teach that the messiah will die for our sins?.Are you aware that in the theology of Judaism that the messiahs role has nothing to do with spiritual salvation but only the physical salvation of Israel from exile? Are you also aware that only G-d is our Savior? (Isaiah 43:10-11).
    Before making statements that the rabbis believed this and that, you should take the time to learn about the methodology of our Rabbis..Midrash agaddah (homily) is not the same as Halacha (Law).
    I urge you to watch the video of the disputation of Barcelona which occurred in 1263 CE..
    The King of Taragon Spain ordered a debate between Pablo Christiani vs. Rabbi Moses Nachman known as Nachmonides..You will better understand what the rabbi's say after viewing this 5 part Video..This debate actually occurred and a recording of this debate was kept and the video is a dramatization of the debate. Here is the link to the 5 part debate.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWeHBaHyoOY .
    Also please read Moshe Shulman's article "what is midrash" from his web-site " http://www.judaismsanswer.com and he goes into great detail on the subject of the rabbinical writings and their methodology. http://judaismsanswer.com/midrash.htm
    Thank you

  21. Stan Levy says:

    David, regarding Isaiah 53:8..I am sorry to inform you of this but I strongly believe that Isaiah 53:8 was purposely mistranslated by the Christian bible translators to force a belief that the verse was speaking about the death of Jesus..
    The KJV translation of 53:8…
    He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people "was he stricken".

    The Jewish Tanach translation of 53:8..
    " From imprisonment and from judgment he is taken and his generation who shall tell? For he was cut off from the land of the living (land of Israel): because of the transgression of my people (gentile people)a plague befell them (Israel)".

    Who is speaking? Beginning with Isaiah 53:1, the gentile Kings begin to speak through verse 9 and they are relating what they have heard from G-d when G-d speaks to them at the end of days.If you read chapter 53 with that in mind then it will make all the sense in the world what is going on..

    Now to continue to address the verse you mentioned Isaiah 53:8..The very last Hebrew word in Isaiah 58:8 is "lamo"..If you go to the concordance at http://www.blueletterbible.com you will see the Hebrew and clearly "lamo" is there and appears as the last word in the verse..Why doesn't the Christian bible translators acknowledge that word?? When you scroll down to where they show the English translation of each Hebrew word, you will also notice they ignored translating "lamo" and translated up to and including the Hebrew word "nega" which means "stricken". What they did was to imply that the word "nega" also means "he was" stricken when it only means "stricken".If they were true to the Hebrew than the verse would have to read using a possible Christian translation, "they were stricken".

    Please let me take this one step further to prove my point..The word 'lamo" also appears in about 15-20 other places and each time they properly translate those verses BUT..BUT…BUT…here is he catch, what they didn't do is show what Hebrew word was used for the English translation "to them"…They left the Hebrew blank, only showing the English translation.. You can verify this yourself by using the link provided above and by going to the following verses where the Hebrew word "lamo"which means to them (plural) appears.
    I will only give you the verses to make it easy for you where the word "lamo" is the very last word in the verse.
    Isaiah 44:7, Habakkuk 2:7, Isaiah 23:1, Psalms 119:165,Psalms 44:4, Job 14:21, Job 6:19, Deut 32:35..That should keep you busy..

  22. Craig Payne says:

    "Well spake the prophet Isaiah concerning this people,"having eyes to see they see not, having hears to hear they hear not. Lest they come unto me and be healed." Quoted by Joshuah ben Joseph of Nazareth more commonly known as Jesus the Christ(Messiah or anointed one). I have studied the Torah since I was old enough to read. I can truly say that Isaiah 53 most clearly talks about Joshuah ben Joseph. It fits no one else. Denial is not a river in Egypt. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but I was a Christian Mormon missionary and I was never a trickster. When speaking to the Jewish people I never use hateful language. I have never condemned the Jewish people or their religious beliefs. If you ave different beliefs form mine that is great we can worship G-d each in our own way without name calling. Shabbot Shalom Craig Payne

  23. Craig Payne says:

    Stan Levy , quoteing the Jewish translation: "From imprisonment and from judgement he was taken …because of the transgression of my people.? Since when did Adoni refer to the Gentiles as "my people?" 'he" is the suffering servant referred to Issiah 52. The suffering servant cut off from the land of the living is a Jew not a Gentile.

  24. Craig Payne says:

    Not all Christians are Gentiles!

  25. Did you join Jewiah Press to convert Jews or because you love Jews?

  26. I believe the Jewish people have given in to the Christian theology so much that we no longer understand our own religion. We do not seek to convert, as most Christians do. Do we realize they are stripping us of our religion, history, culture, foundations, and even our G-D?

  27. Psalm 22 is Jewish, written by David

  28. I'm going off-topic a little here, but I've always had trouble seeing things the way I was taught to see things. As one who was raised in a Christian (pentecostal) household, I still don't understand why it's so important to worship Jesus, rather than G-d. Christians can argue all they want why prophecies of the Old Testament are referring to Jesus as the messiah, but they can never explain why G-d had this great salvation plan that really just muddied the waters and confused the world as to who was and is G-d. To me, it makes more sense to acknowledge the one and only Creator. Really, if Jesus was and is the true messiah, isn't that like the cruelest trick a Creator could pull on his creation? To change the game, mid-stream without explaining and proving, beyond a reasonable doubt, that this new messiah was and is the Son of G-d and G-d at the same time?

    And since there are so many Christians who read Jewish Press, could one of them explain to me how if Jesus is the only way to salvation, what happens to all the people who've never heard the Christian salvation message? No matter how good you are and how much you respect the Creator and his creation, it's not good enough unless you choose to follow this man as G-d. Seems a little unfair, seeing as how the Christian message doesn't reach everybody and the teachers of the message often butchered the message or the people the message was supposed to reach. I wouldn't blame somebody for not following Christ in those cases, and I don't think I could follow a creator that could either.

  29. Stan Levy says:

    Craig, I choose not to argue with your understanding since you do not believe Isaiah 53 is about Jesus..But I woud like to share with you that the verse that does specifically speak about ben yosef is zech 12:10..That is speaking about the future war of gog and magog which will be fought in the valley of megiddo. Ben Yosef will be anointed as a warrior general and he will die in that battle and all of Jerusalem will mourn for him as they did for King Josiah who also was sore wounded fighting in the valley of meggido.(see 2 chron 35:22-25.)
    Back to Isaiah 53..I can show you many paralell verses in Tanach which clearly speak of Israel in the same type of language spoken about the suffering servant in Isaiah 53, i.e; despised, afflicted, forsaken, wounded, led like sheep to the slaughter, etc, etc..I will give you one here now and if you want more just ask..compare isaiah 53:7 to Psalms 44:12-22(11-21) "led like sheep to the slaughter"

  30. Stan Levy says:

    Roasted Locust..Since Jews do not proseletyze it does not bother me that you are a believer because you are being true to G-d's oneness.You are considered to be a righteous gentile because of your beliefs..As long as you don't try to witness to Jews than you are fine…Judaism does not accept the NT teachings because the Christian claims that Jesus fulfilled the prophecies about him in the Tanach are bogus..No truth to any of them. In fact I can say that of the 350+ prophecies claimed that Jesus fulfilled, NOT ONE of the prophecies were fulfilled..The Christian bible translators completely mistranslated verses that have nothing to do with Jesus and many of them have nothing to do wit messiah period…It takes chuztpah for believers to think that Christian scholars are better eqipped to translate the Hebrew than the Jewish scholars….ThanksStan Irv Levy

  31. Stan Levy , I agree with you. I'm not missing something I just didn't mention it because time and space are limited. The accreditation of that atonement to a third party is an equally important subject. Have you heard of the term self-maledictory oath? "May it be done unto me if I do not hold up my end of the covenant." The accreditation of atonement requires a self-maledictory oath by those seeking the benefits of justification. This issue has been largely overlooked by the contemporary church.

  32. Stan Levy The Gaon Vilna and Schneerson and many others said Isaiah 53 is speaking of messiah, that is a fact. It is recorded history. Everyone knows they did not believe in Yeshua. There is no one methodology or interpretation of the rabbis. That is a myth. Challenge yourself with Yitzhak Shapira's book "Return of the Kosher Pig."

  33. Craig Payne says:

    Stan Levy Where did you get the idea that I don't think Isaiah 53 is about Jesus Christ?. Of course it is! Isaiah 53:3&5 speaks of our sins, sorrows, being healed by the suffering servant,.(atonement through the shedding of blood). Pierced, crushed, and we are healed by his wound.. Isaiah speaks about "we.". Who was hiis audience. Israel ancient and modern, Israel, North ans South, Ephraim and Judah. By we Isaiah was also including himself.This must of been very moving for the great prophet. You mentioned Zechariah. This prophet continues with the wounds of the Messiah when he appears to modern Israel. "13 What are these wounds on your body? ,they ask.. "he will answer, 'The wounds I received in the house of my friends.'" Zec13:16 The disciples of Jesus Christ all believed that the entire Torah were types and symbols pointing towards the messiah and that jesus was the fulilment of these prophecies. So do I. I am not trying to argue with you I am sharing my testimony of Christ and the new Covenant.

  34. Craig Payne says:

    Stan Levy A Jewish rabbi who was a contemporary of Jesus taught that all of the temple sacrifices were types and symbols point to the last and great sacrifice of the 'suffering servant". he was trained by Gamaliel a member of the Knesset in the first century. his name was Saul of Tarsus better known as Paul.

  35. Craig Payne says:

    "All we have gone astray." Who does Isaiah include as "we"? The entire House of Israel ancient and modern. It must have been very moving to Isaiah seeing the suffering servant being abandoned, crushed and pierced so that Isaiah sins could be atoned for.

  36. Craig Payne says:

    By the way I graduated from Brigham Young University with a Bachelor of Science Degree. I also studied Middle Eastern studies which include not just Israel but Egypt ancient Iraq , the Crusades, Islam ext.

  37. Craig Payne says:

    There are hundred of prophecies of the messiah that reached their fulfillment in Jesus Christ. You may differ about that but for all these prophesies to be fulfilled by one man 33 years of life are astronomical.

  38. psalm 116 "I love the Lord, the fount of life and grace, He heard my voice, my cry my supplication, bend down His ear, gave joy and consolation, In life and death, my heart shall seek His face. What shall I render to my Saviour now, for all the riches of His consolation, With joy I"ll take the cup of His salvation. And call upon His name with thankful vow. David speaking about taking the cup of salvation, what cup of salvation is he speaking of? Was it not Christ who drank the cup of our salvation, and regained for us paradise, as now we once again can commune with the Lord G-d of Isreal only through Christ as He has taken away our trangressions, when we ask forgiveness in His name. As there is no other saviour beside Him, who delivered us from the bondage of sin and death, so that we now give praise and thanks to the Lord G-d of Isreal for the grace and love which was manifested in Christ. what other king does give His life for the people? shalom and G-d bless, beside Christ has put a love for Israel into our heart as G-d sends His holy spirit into our hearts which convicts us of sin and points us to the saving grace which is in Christ our Redeemer.

  39. The NT was not written by Goyim (even Luke had become a Jewish believer) but Jews who had walked with and had been disciple by Yeshua miNatzeret, bar David, bar Avraham.

  40. Earl Mann says:

    Wonderful discussion. Thanks to all, especially Stan Levy.

  41. Earl Mann says:

    Wonderful discussion. Thanks to all, especially Stan Levy.


  43. Ben Yosef Shomer says:

    Craig Payne ha ha ha

  44. Jonah Doctura says:

    Let the passages speak: LORD Yeshua said "I and the Father are One."

    "For unto us a child is born .., and His Name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty Almighty, EVERLASTING FATHER, Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6

    (Deut 6:4 [ESV2011])
    “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is ONE.

    (Deut 6:4 [WLC])
    שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ יְהוָה ׀ אֶחָֽד׃

    LXE Genesis 1:1 IN THE BEGINNING God made the heaven and the earth.

    (Gen 1:1 [WLC])
    בְּרֵאשִׁית בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם וְאֵת הָאָֽרֶץ׃

    ESV John 1:1 IN THE BEGINNING was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    • ESV Isaiah 44:6 Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: "I AM THE FIRST and I am THE LAST; besides me there is no god.

    • ESV Isaiah 44:8 Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me? THERE IS NO ROCK; I know not any."

    • ESV Isaiah 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, and Israel, whom I called! I am he; I AM THE FIRST and I am THE LAST.

    • ESV Revelation 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, "Fear not, I AM THE FIRST and I am THE LAST

    ESV Isaiah 44:24 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, WHO MADE ALL THINGS, who alone STRETCHED out the heavens, who SPREAD out the earth by myself,

    ESV Revelation 3:14 "And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: 'The words of the Amen, the faithful and TRUE WITNESS, the BEGINNING of God's creation.

    ESV Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For BY HIM all things were CREATED, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities- ALL THINGS were CREATED through him and for him. 17 And HE is BEFORE all things, and in HIM ALL THINGS HOLD TOGETHER. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.

    ESV Isaiah 63:16 For you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us, and Israel does not acknowledge us; you, O LORD, are our Father, our REDEEMER from of old is your name.

  45. Jonah Doctura says:

    I forgot to thank my Jewish friends about our Jewish Messiah – Lord Y'shua, and some 12 Jewish disciples that wrote the New Testament. From the bottom of my heart – I thank you and please accept my apologies of the errors of the past for they have misunderstood the TANAKH and other writings. Shalom…

  46. Jonah Doctura says:

    I need to add this too: Who is walking in this Genesis verses:

    CJB Genesis 3:8 They heard the voice of ADONAI, God, WALKING IN THE GARDEN at the time of the evening breeze, so the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of ADONAI, God, among the trees in the garden. 9 ADONAI, God, CALLED to the man, "Where are you?" 10 He answered, "I HEARD your VOICE in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, so I hid myself."

    CJB Genesis 19:24 Then ADONAI caused sulfur and fire to rain down upon S'dom and 'Amora FROM <- ADONAI <- out of the sky.


  47. Hi David. I saw your post regarding Isaiah 53:8. Your question would be a good one, except that the English translation of the original Hebrew you stated makes a fatal mistake, which changes the nature of the verse. The Hebrew word "L'mo" is plural. It means "them" or "they" not "him". So the verse when taken from the original Hebrew reads more accurately: "For the transgression of MY PEOPLE they were punished." It is my hope that one day you will merit to learn Hebrew and be able to read the Hebrew scriptures in the original. When you no longer need English translations then you'll come to realize how misleading the Christian translation of all the book of Isaiah really is.

  48. Philip Wylie says:

    1: "Brothers and fathers, listen to me! The God of glory appeared to Avraham avinu in Mesopotamia before he lived in Haran 3 and said to him, 'Leave your land and your family, and go into the land that I will show you.' 4 So he left the land of the Kasdim and lived in Haran. After his father died, God made him move to this land where you are living now. 5 He gave him no inheritance in it, not even space for one foot; yet he promised to give it to him as a possession and to his descendants after him, even though at the time he was childless. 6 What God said to him was, 'Your descendants will be aliens in a foreign land, where they will be in slavery and oppressed for four hundred years. 7 But I will judge the nation that enslaves them,' God said, 'and afterwards they will leave and worship me in this place.' 8 And he gave him b'rit-milah. So he became the father of Yitz'chak and did his b'rit-milah on the eighth day, and Yitz'chak became the father of Ya'akov, and Ya'akov became the father of the Twelve Patriarchs. 9 "Now the Patriarchs grew jealous of Yosef and sold him into slavery in Egypt. But ADONAI was with him; 10 he rescued him from all his troubles and gave him favor and wisdom before Pharaoh, king of Egypt, who appointed him chief administrator over Egypt and over all his household. t 11 Now there came a famine that caused much suffering throughout Egypt and Kena'anu 12 But when Ya'akov heard that there was grain in Egypt, he sent our fathers there the first time. 13 The second time, Yosef revealed his identity to his brothers, and Yosef's family became known to Pharaoh. 14 Yosef then sent for his father Ya'akov and all his relatives, seventy-five people. 15 And Ya'akov went down to Egypt; there he died, as did our other ancestors. 16 Their bodies were removed to Sh'khem and buried in the tomb Avraham had bought from the family of Hamor in Sh'khem for a certain sum of money. 17 "As the time drew near for the fulfillment of the promise God had made to Avraham, the number of our people in Egypt increased greatly, 18 until there arose another king over Egypt who had no knowledge of Yosef. 19 With cruel cunning this man forced our fathers to put their newborn babies outside their homes, so that they would not survive. 20 "It was then that Moshe was born, and he was beautiful in God's sight. For three months he was reared in his father's house; 21 and when he was put out of his home, Pharaoh's daughter took him and brought him up as her own son. 22 So Moshe was trained in all the wisdom of the Egyptians and became both a powerful speaker and a man of action. 23 "But when he was forty years old, the thought came to him to visit his brothers, the people of Isra'el. 24 On seeing one of them being mistreated, he went to his defense and took revenge by striking down the Egyptian. 25 He supposed his brothers would understand that God was using him to rescue them, but they didn't understand. 26 When he appeared the next day, as they were fighting, and tried to make peace between them by saying, 'Men, you are brothers! Why do you want to hurt each other?' 27 the one who was mistreating his fellow pushed Moshe away and said, 'Who made you a ruler and judge over us? 28 Do you want to kill me, the way you killed that Egyptian yesterday?' 29 On hearing this, Moshe fled the country and became an exile in the land of Midyan, where he had two sons. 30 "After forty more years, an angel appeared to him in the desert near Mount Sinai in the flames of a burning thorn bush. 31 When Moshe saw this, he was amazed at the sight; and as he approached to get a better look, there came the voice of ADONAI, 32 'I am the God of your fathers, the God of Avraham, Yitz'chak and Ya'akov.' But Moshe trembled with fear and didn't dare to look. 33 ADONAI said to him, 'Take off your sandals, because the place where you are standing is holy ground. 34 I have clearly seen how My people are being oppressed in Egypt, I have heard their cry, and I have come down to rescue them, and now I will send you to Egypt.' 35 "This Moshe, whom they rejected, saying, 'Who made you a ruler and judge?' is the very one whom God sent as both ruler and ransomer by means of the angel that appeared to him in the thorn bush. 36 This man led them out, performing miracles and signs in Egypt, at the Red Sea and in the wilderness for forty years. 37 This is the Moshe who said to the people of Isra'el, 'God will raise up a prophet like me from among your brothers' 38 This is the man who was in the assembly in the wilderness, accompanied by the angel that had spoken to him at Mount Sinai and by our fathers, the man who was given living words to pass on to us. 39 "But our fathers did not want to obey him. On the contrary, they rejected him and in their hearts turned to Egypt, 40 saying to Aharon, 'Make us some gods to lead us; because this Moshe, who led us out of Egypt – we don't know what has become of him.'a 41 That was when they made an idol in the shape of a calf and offered a sacrifice to it and held a celebration in honor of what they had made with their own hands. 42 So God turned away from them and gave them over to worship the starsb – as has been written in the book of the prophets, 'People of Isra'el, it was not to me that you offered slaughtered animals and sacrifices for forty years in the wilderness! 43 No, you carried the tent of Molekh and the star of your god Reifan, the idols you made so that you could worship them. Therefore, I will send you into exile beyond Bavel.' 44 "Our fathers had the Tent of Witness in the wilderness. It had been made just as God, who spoke to Moshe, had ordered it made, according to the pattern Moshe had seen. 45 Later on, our fathers who had received it brought it in with Y'hoshua when they took the Land away from the nations that God drove out before them. "So it was until the days of David. 46 He enjoyed God's favor and asked if he might provide a dwelling place for the God of Ya'akov 47 and Shlomo did build him a house. 48 But Ha'Elyon does not live in places made by hand! As the prophet says, 49 'Heaven is my throne,' says ADONAI, 'and the earth is my footstool. What kind of house could you build for me? What kind of place could you devise for my rest? 50 Didn't I myself make all these things?' 51 "Stiffnecked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You continually oppose the Ruach HaKodesh! You do the same things your fathers did! 52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? They killed those who told in advance about the coming of the Tzaddik, and now you have become his betrayers and murderers! – 53 you! – who receive the Torah as having been delivered by angels – but do not keep it!". Any questions?

  49. Stan Levy says:

    Jonah, you posted to many verses but I will start with a response about Isaiah 9:5(6)..
    Jonah, regarding your post about Isaiah 9:5(6)..Christianity understands this verse to be a future prophecy of Jesus but they are mistaken.
    The verse in most Jewish Tanach's read it as "For a child "has been born", meaning the child was already born when Isaiah wrote this chapter..Judaism understands that child to be Hezekiah who became King of Judah when his father King Ahaz died.
    There are two tenses in the Hebrew..1. perfect tense, 2. imperfect tense.
    An inperfect tense indicates a completed action and a perfect tense, a future action.
    Here are 3 examples that you can check out using your Christian bible to verify this. The same Hebrew tense found in Isaiah 9:5(6) is also found in the following verses.
    Gen 4:26, "was born"…Gen 10:21, "were born", Gen 34:26, "were born"..Apparently your Christian bible translators know the correct meaning of " Yulad" and thus they correctly translated the verses as a completed action..
    Regarding the titles given to the child. They represent the attributes of G-d..Let me give you examples so you can better understand this concept.
    Hezekiah means "The Mighty G-d", Elisha means "G-d is Salvation", Elijah means "Yhwh G-d", Gedalia means "Great G-d"..
    Finally, according to Christianity, messianic prophecies are found in the Tanach and fulfillment of prophecy in the New Testament..There is not one Gospel writer who thought that Isaiah 9:5(6) was speaking about Jesus because they never quote the verse to show fulfillment of prophecy…I look forward to your response.

  50. Stan Levy says:

    Sientje, the reason a learned Jewwould not relate to what you are saying is because we don't accept the validity of the New Testament since it completely contradicts the word of G-d found in the Jewish Tanach, what you call the OT..Jews will not interfere with the beliefs of a gentile but Jews will for sure defend their faith should a gentile try to witness to a Jew…The concept of a messiah is Jewish but the job decriptions of the messiah according to Jewish understanding differs completely from that of Christianity….Thanks

  51. Stan Levy says:

    Sharon, a word study if you would like to take the time to study would show that the Hebrew word "zera" which means "seed" is never about a spiritual seed but always about a biological seed,(phtycial offspring). Thus when you read Isaiah 53:10 it says that if Israel admits to its guilt and repents, his soul would see restitution and he shall see seed (meaning Israel will have offspring). Also his days will be prolonged..Jesus did not have children and only lived a 1/2 life..

  52. Stan Levy says:

    correction. '"physical seed"

  53. Stan Levy says:

    Craig Payne Craig Payne, If you read my post you would have understood that beginning with Isaiah 53:1 through verse 9, the gentile kings of the world be begin to speak and they are relating what G-d told them in Isaiah 52;13-15, about how badly they treated Israel while they were in captivity and under their stewardship..

  54. Stan Levy says:

    continuing..So it makes all the sense in the world when you know who the speaker is in Isaiah 53:8..The gentile kings are talking about Israel who was sent into captivity by G-d when He destroyed the 2nd temple. The words "he was cut off from the land of the living", refers to G-d sending Israel out from Israel (the land of the living) into exile

  55. Stan Levy says:

    concluding. The gentile kings are speaking about the gentile people who sinned and transgressed against Israel for the past 1800 years + and so you see the words "my people" refer to the gentile kings people..To help you understand this better, please check out Ezekiel 34:27, 29-30…In verse 29 it says that 'Israel shall no longer bear the shame of the gentile nations"…………..Thanks

  56. Stan Levy says:

    Craig Payne Saul was not an eye wiitness to the life of Jesus and in fact IMHO, there is not one piece of historical evidence to the life of Jesus other then the one sentence written about james and jesus by Josephus in the works the antiquity of the Jews..Philo who lived at the same time of jesus never mentions him. There ar no roman records or not any records from pontius pilate about the passion of jesus..Our rabbis who do speak of a jesus are speaking about a jesus who lived about 150 years before the jesus of the NT..

  57. Stan Levy says:

    Craig Payne Regarding Zech 13:6, if you insist that this verse is speaking about Jesus then you are claiming that he is a false prophet. You are obviously not reading Zech 13:1-6 in context . IF you did you would know that this is end of days prophecy when G-d will eliminate all the idols and false prophets..Also you should have recognized that the false prophet was stabbed by his parents for being a false prophet and thus the verse "what are those wounds between your hands and our feet"..it is referring to the wounds inflicted by the false prophets parents………….CONTEXT,,CONTEXT, CONTEXT..

  58. Stan Levy says:

    Craig Payne …Please referi to my post above to David Brownfield about Isaiah 53..thanks

  59. Jonah Doctura says:

    A comparison of the two Scriptures above makes it clear that Christ, "God" ('elohim) and "the LORD" (YHVH) mentioned in Numbers 21:5-6 are all the same entity.

    Judges 2:1 confirms that it was the Angel of the LORD who led the Israelites out of Egypt and into the Promised Land:

    JUDGES 2:1 Then the Angel of the LORD [mal'ak YHVH] came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said: "I led you up from Egypt and brought you to the land of which I swore to your fathers; and I said, 'I will never break My covenant with you.' " (NKJV)

    Just as the Angel of the LORD was God's messenger to the people of Israel, Christ was also a "messenger" of God the Father in the New Testament. Regarding his role, Yeshua said "I have not spoken on my own authority; the Father who sent me has told me what to say and what to speak" (John 12:49).

    Another pair of Scriptures further identifies the Angel of the LORD as the Messiah. Recorded in Judges 13 is the story of Samson's parents being notified of his impending birth by the Angel of the LORD. Manoah, Samson's father, did not realize that the one who foretold the birth of his son was the Angel (Judges 13:16). He asked the Angel of the LORD what his name was, so that they might honor him when his prophecy came true. The Angel's answer is very revealing, if understood correctly:

    JUDGES 13:18 And the Angel of Jehovah said to him, Why do you ask this about My name? Yea, it is Wonderful. (A Literal Translation of the Bible)

    The Angel of YHVH answered Manoah by saying that his name was "Wonderful." When we compare the Angel's answer to the prophecy of the coming Messiah recorded in Isaiah 9:6, the similarities are striking:

    ISAIAH 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. (NKJV)

    The name the Angel gave Manoah is one of the names prophesied to be applied to Yeshua the Messiah. By itself, this could simply be discounted as a coincidence. However, when considered with the weight of the other evidence we've examined, it's clear that the Angel of the LORD is the one who became Christ.

    In the first century C.E., the Greek translation of the Old Testament known as the Septuagint (LXX) was widely used by Greek-speaking Jews. In the LXX, this same verse is rendered somewhat differently:

    ISAIAH 9:6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger [aggelos] of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. (Brenton's LXX)

    As you can see, the Septuagint calls the coming Messiah the "Aggelos (Angel) of Great Counsel." Both the Hebrew and Greek versions of this verse link the coming Messiah to the Angel of the LORD. The evidence is substantial that the Angel of the LORD and Yeshua the Messiah are one and the same!

    Some people have trouble with using the designation "Angel" for the preincarnate Messiah. However, the Scriptures clearly show that this is a description that applies to him:

    MALACHI 3:1 "Behold, I send My messenger, and he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple, even the Messenger [mal'ak, lit. "Angel"] of the covenant, in whom you delight. Behold, He is coming," says the LORD of hosts. (NKJV)

    In Malachi, we see that "the Lord" who "will suddenly come to His temple" is also called the "Angel of the covenant." Plainly, the Scriptures indicate that "Angel" is one of the titles of the coming Messiah.

    Another appearance of the being we know as Christ is recorded in Joshua 5:13-15. Here he calls himself the "Commander of the host of YHVH":

    JOSHUA 5:13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, a Man stood opposite him with His sword drawn in His hand. And Joshua went to Him and said to Him, "Are You for us or for our adversaries?" 14 So He said, "No, but as Commander of the army [tseva', "host"] of the LORD I have now come." And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped, and said to Him, "What does my Lord say to His servant?" 15 Then the Commander of the LORD's army said to Joshua, "Take your sandal off your foot, for the place where you stand is holy." And Joshua did so. (NKJV) In addiition you have not answered who is the Person walking in the gan Eden and Who is Adonai calling from Earth in Genesis 19.24… The grammar question is DOES not jive with the Hebrew Tanakh translation that I have and I have several of them….

  60. Jonah Doctura says:

    2nd point I wold like to stress on Isaiah 9:5-6 – these verses or the verses preceding this glorious prophecy refer to the fall of Assyria, the great enemy of the Jewish people 700 years before Y'shua. According to Dr. Michael Brown – "the birth announcement COULD refer to a Davidic king born in that general time frame." But NO king, he added AT THAT TIME fulfilled WHAT was promised. By reading the verses again and ignoring for a a moment the names of the chlld, HEZEKIAH hardly lived up to ANY of tje promises given, and before he was dead, the prophet Isaiah informed him that hiis descendants would be taken into exile in Babylon (Isa. 39). the word " yalad" have different Hebrew and Aramaic rendition that both the Jewish and Christians have argued that this is a MESSIANIC prophecy – PLAIN AND SIMPLE. shalom

  61. Anonymous says:

    I would refer Mr. Yanover and others to What the Rabbonim Say About Moschiach by Douglas Pyle, a goy. In Chapter Six on "The Sufferings of Moschiach" we find that Midrash Konen refers to Isaiah 53 as referring to Moschiach. Likewise Rambam (Nachmanides), Rabbi Naphtali ben Asher Altshculer, Midrash Rabbah Ruth, Zohar (Numbers, Pincus 218a), Yalkut Hadash, Midrash Aserot Memrot, Rabbi Shimon ben Yochai, and Moshe Kohen ibn Crispin. Only after Rashi do we begin to see Isaiah 53 given a more collective interpretation. Seen in this context, it is a legitimate position within rabbinical theological history to consider Isaiah 53 (beginning in 52) in the singular as reference to Messiah. And if it is a reference to Messiah, then does the description sound like anyone we know?…..

  62. Stan Levy says:

    luvgod245, If you really want an education, click on this link http://judaismsanswer.com/midrash.htm and read Moshe Shulman's very detailed and scholarly article on the subject of the rabbinical writings and midrash agaddah..
    Even Dr Brown had no choice but to agree to certain undeniable truths and you will find his remarks in this article.
    Our Rabbis do not believe that messiah has come yet, nor do they believe that messiah will die for sins or vicariously for other..
    What they are doing is alluding to messiah in certain verses but always understanding the p'shat to be speaking about Israel..
    It is amazing that the believers do not accept the rabbinical writings nor do they understand the methodology of the rabbis, so ironically and out of ignorance they are trying to teach Jews who accept the rabbinical writings that they do not understand that the rabbis are in agreement with believers in that they believe that messiah is the suffering servant of Chapter 53..

    Stan Levy

  63. Miki Bacsi says:

    It's a good article. It would be great if it explained the entire chapter.

    And it is true, that the person who writes under the name 'Rabbi Moshe Shulman" has written a very thorough article on this subject. I, too, suggest to everybody to read it as well.

  64. Stan Levy says:

    This thread can be very successful and valuable if more people partake in it and that the points made continue to be discussed and not dropped abruptly. I notice in some cases that points are made, evidence/sources shown to back up a particular claim, but the rebettals do not address the evidence shown. If we are here to bring truth than we must be honest enough to address the points made.

  65. Uriel Centeno Perez says:

    At the end of our game we will all know the real thruth behind Hashems word

  66. Stan Levy Rabbinical Judaism is not Biblical Judaism.

  67. Zechariah 12:10-13
    Mourning for the One They Pierced

    10“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. 11On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be as great as the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. 12The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, 13the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, 14and all the rest of the clans and their wives.

    Or you can read it like this:

    10 And I will pour upon the Bais Dovid, and upon the inhabitants of Yerushalayim, the Ruach (Spirit) of Chen (grace) and of Tachanunim (supplications for favor); and they shall look upon Me whom they have pierced [DAKAR, "PIERCE THROUGH" CF. YESHAYAH 53:5; TARGUM HASHIVIM TEHILLIM 22:17], and they shall mourn for Him (Moshiach) as one mourneth for his yachid (only son), and shall grieve in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his bechor (firstborn). 11 In Yom Hahu shall there be a great mourning in Yerushalayim, as the mourning of Hadad-rimmon in the valley of Megiddon. 12 And ha'aretz shall mourn, all mishpochot apart; the mishpachat Bais Dovid apart, and their wives apart; the mishpachat Bais Natan apart, and their wives apart; [Shmuel Bais 5:14] 13 The mishpachat Bais Levi apart, and their wives apart; the mishpachat Shimei apart, and their wives apart; [BAMIDBAR 3:17-18,21] 14 All the mishpochot that remain, all mishpochot apart, and their wives apart.

  68. Stan Levy says:

    Maria, there is not one Jewish Tanach where it translate zech 12:10 the way your bible translates it.
    First of all, it is definitely G-d speaking and the Hebrew grammar would not allow a translation that would have G-d pierced……The Tanach says "they shall look to Me(G-d) because of the one (someone else) who was pierced, and they shall mourn for him as one mourns for an only son..
    If you are going to always ignore Judaism's understanding of the Hebrew and how verses are translated based on that understanding that was given to them by G-d, then there is no debate to be had and would be fruitless. Zech12:10 is about the war of gog and magog which is in the future and since the chapter does not name who is being pierced our Talmud teaches that it is about ben yosef, a warrior general who will be anointed by G-d to fight that battle in which he will die in a similar manner as King Josiah died in the valley of meggiddo ..The battle of gog and magog will also be fought in the valley of meggiddo..

  69. Stan Levy says:

    Maria, P.S. Please go to 2nd Chron 35:22-25 and you will see that the battle of gog and magog will be fought in the same place (meggiddo)as where King Josiah was sore wounded and died in battle and all Jerusalem mourned for him.. Similar story as Zech 12:10..

  70. Stan Levy says:

    Maria, due to the lenth of this response, I will send it in two parts or more if necessary…Part 1..Maria, throughout the Tanach G-d is speaking about the Nation of Israel, collectively as if one person.. You have to understand this concept or you will always misunderstand what Tanach is saying and who G-d is addressing.
    You mentioned Isaiah 52 so lets dscuss that chapter since that gives background to what Isaiah 53 is about..
    Isaiah 52:5..My people (Israel) has been taking for nothing..Meaning persecuted for no reason by the gentile kings who were supposed to be stewards over G-d's flock while Israel was in captivity (exile) since the 2nd Temple was destroyed and for the past 1800 + years..G–d blames the gentile rulers for blaspheming His name constantly.

    Isaiah 52:10..The term arm of the Lord/His holy arm is a term that G-d uses when addressing the Gentile kings to show them G-d's physical salvation of Israel..Has nothing to do with spiritual salvation..

    Isaiah 52:11-12 G-d tells Israel to get out of the unclean nations and to purify itself, calling Israel the ones who bear the Lords vessels.
    Also G-d is saying to His people Israel that He goes before Israel and is also says He is our rear guard, the G-d of Israel.

    The above verses is a prelude to chapter 53..Chapter 53 officially begins in Isaiah 52:13 where G-d says Behold My servant shall prosper; he shall be exalted and lifted up, and he shall be very high..

    Setting: End of days, future from today..
    Isaiah 52:13-14-15, G-d is speaking at the end days, future from today when G-d removes His people from exile which chapter 52 speaks about and He is speaking to the Gentile kings(rulers), and is telling them how badly Israel was treated by the gentiles during their many years in exile..
    Anyone who knows the history of the Jewish people would not deny that they are and were the most persecuted people over any other peoples on earth, i.e; the pogroms, the holocaust, the Spanish inquisition, the Crusades, etc etc.

    Setting: End of days, future from today..
    Isaiah 53:1-9…The gentile kings begin to speak here and they are relating to the reader what G-d said to them in the prior three verses.
    You have to ask the following questions..

    1. Was Israel "despised?
    2. Was Israel "afflicted"?
    3. Was Israel "forsaken"?

    Lets look for parallel verses in Tanach to see if scripture uses similar language to that of Isaiah 53, to describe Israel's suffering.
    Isaiah 49:3, 7-8, 13-15..<<<<clearly speaking of Israel.
    Isaiah 54:4-7, 11, 14, 17..<<<<<< clearly speaking of Israel.
    Isaiah 60:14-15 <<<<<< clearly speaking of Israel.
    Isaiah 62:2-5 <<<<<<<> clearly speaking of Israel and the land of Israel.
    4. Was Israel "wounded"?
    5. Was Israel "pained"?
    Lets look at Jeremiah 30:8-13..G-d says Israel's bruise is "painful" and their "wound" grievous. The gentiles did not deem Israel's wound to be healed.

  71. Stan Levy says:

    Part two..6. Was Israel "delivered like sheep to the slaughter"?
    Lets examine Psalms 44:11-22.. "You have delivered us (Israel) like "SHEEP TO THE SLAUGHTER"…and among the "gentiles" you have scattered "us"..(speaking about Israel's current exile)..You made "us" a disgrace to our neighbors (gentiles), the mockery and scorn of those (gentiles) around us.
    Ezekiel 34;15-16..I will tend 'My sheep" and lay them down..The lost, I will seek out; and the banished, I will retrieve. 'THE WOUNDED", I will heal, and the frail, I will strengthen.
    Zech: 11:4-5, 7…G-d tends to the "flock of the slaughter"..
    7. Was Israel stricken? (Isaiah 53:8)
    I already went into great detail in my post to David Brownfield and I will copy/paste that here.

    David, regarding Isaiah 53:8..I am sorry to inform you of this but I strongly believe that Isaiah 53:8 was purposely mistranslated by the Christian bible translators to force a belief that the verse was speaking about the death of Jesus..
    The KJV translation of 53:8…
    He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people "was he stricken".

    The Jewish Tanach translation of 53:8..
    " From imprisonment and from judgment he is taken and his generation who shall tell? For he was cut off from the land of the living (land of Israel): because of the transgression of my people (gentile people)a plague befell them (Israel)".

    Who is speaking? Beginning with Isaiah 53:1, the gentile Kings begin to speak through verse 9 and they are relating what they have heard from G-d when G-d speaks to them at the end of days.If you read chapter 53 with that in mind then it will make all the sense in the world what is going on..

    Now to continue to address the verse you mentioned Isaiah 53:8..The very last Hebrew word in Isaiah 58:8 is "lamo"..If you go to the concordance at http://www.blueletterbible.com you will see the Hebrew and clearly "lamo" is there and appears as the last word in the verse..Why doesn't the Christian bible translators acknowledge that word?? When you scroll down to where they show the English translation of each Hebrew word, you will also notice they ignored translating "lamo" and translated up to and including the Hebrew word "nega" which means "stricken". What they did was to imply that the word "nega" also means "he was" stricken when it only means "stricken".If they were true to the Hebrew than the verse would have to read using a possible Christian translation, "they were stricken".

    Please let me take this one step further to prove my point..The word 'lamo" also appears in about 15-20 other places and each time they properly translate those verses BUT..BUT…BUT…here is he catch, what they didn't do is show what Hebrew word was used for the English translation "to them"…They left the Hebrew blank, only showing the English translation.. You can verify this yourself by using the link provided above and by going to the following verses where the Hebrew word "lamo"which means to them (plural) appears.
    I will only give you the verses to make it easy for you where the word "lamo" is the very last word in the verse.
    Isaiah 44:7, Habakkuk 2:7, Isaiah 23:1, Psalms 119:165,Psalms 44:4, Job 14:21, Job 6:19, Deut 32:35..That should keep you busy..
    Now, let us return to Isaiah 52:13.."Behold My servant shall prosper; he shall be exalted and lifted up , and shall be very high".
    Why wouldn't Jews understand that Isaiah 53 was speaking about Israel as being the suffering servant when we know and as you have been shown clearly that Israel has indeed suffered at the hands of the gentiles for the past 1800 plus years.
    Why wouldn't Jews understand that Isaiah 53 was speaking about Israel as being the suffering servant when the following chapters and verses clearly show that G-d refers to Israel has His servant..(servant is singular).
    Isaiah 41:8-9, Isaiah 43:10 (both singular and plural), Isaiah 44:1-2, Isaiah 44:21, Isaiah 45:4, Isaiah 48:20, Isaiah 49:3. All these chapters precede chapter 53 and logically and contextually it is proper to understand Chapter 53 to be about Israel.
    You will never find any verses in Tanach where "moshiach" suffers..Any reference to "ben David" speak otherwise..
    The ball is now in your court. I have established a case where it is indisputable that Isaiah 53 is speaking about Israel being the servant discussed and I used parallel verses from the same book (Tanach) to prove this..
    Please show me using Tanach where "ben David" is ever depicted to suffer in the manner that Isaiah 53 speaks of.. I eagerly wait for your attempt to refute what I have shown above..

  72. Stan Levy says:

    one last important comment..Origin, 1st century church father, after quoting Isaiah 53 said that learned Jews told him that the suffering servant was Israel being spoken about in the singular, collectively as if one person…

  73. Stan Levy says:

    Jonah, urge you to take the time to review a scholarly, collegiate level teaching on Isaiah 9:5(6) by Professor Uri Yosef who is an orthodox Jew, a natve Israelie and fluent in Hebrew, Hebrew grammar etc.
    Here is the link to this teaching and many other teachings as well.

  74. Stan Levy says:

    Gabriel, still waiting for more writing..

  75. Stan Levy says:

    Margaret…what is more important than G-d's word as written in the Jewish Tanach..If we do not accurately relate His word than what have we?? Proper translation of the Hebrew and context is paramount to understanding G-d's word.. I do hope you agree..I invite you to refute my claims posted in this thread..

  76. Stan Levy says:

    Craig Payne ..The only person who was a contemporary of Jesus and lived at the time of Jesus was Philo and Philo never mentioned Jesus even once..From what I have read, Saul/paul was never called a rabbi..It is highly unlikely that Paul ever studied under Gamliel..Gamliel nor any other member of the knesset would have taught or instructed anyone to go and kill Christians for what they believed…

  77. Stan Levy says:

    David Brownfield, you need to know more about Jewish Law. Messiah cannot be a priest but can perform some priestly duties. A priest cannot be a king…What was before the Levitical laws came into being are no longer valid. Melchezedek was a gentile king before the Levitical laws were given to Israel.. Levitical laws prohibit a king to be a priest and a priest to be a king..If you are going to change G-d's law than I can only suggest that you take that up with G-d..Judaism chooses to be true to G-d's Laws.

  78. Stan Levy says:

    Craig Payne, please refer to my response to David Brownfield above on Isaiah 53 and the use of the singular pronouns..

  79. Stan Levy says:

    Craig Payne , please see my post to Maria Martinez which addresses in great detail your questions regarding "my people" and who does Isaiah include as "we"

  80. Stan Levy says:

    Maria,, here is link in response to the link you posted above..Before one gets too excited about what's in the link provided by Maria martinez, one needs to read this article – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._W._H._Pauli.

  81. Stan Levy says:

    Jonah, Uri Yosef whose teaching link was provided above ,here is his response to what you said on November 18 at 5:47 am..
    Thanks for providing him with the link to my article. His bringing up the work "yalad" indicates that he does not know Hebrew. The actual conjugated vowel there is "yulad", and I have a table in my article with all the instances of this conjugated verb (which is in the past tense, by the way) in the Hebrew Bible, and show the correct translation next to the KJV translation of all those instances.

  82. Stan Levy, Zechariah 6 "he will be clothed with majesty and will sit and rule on his throne. And he will be a priest on his throne." HE WILL SIT AND RULE and BE A PRIEST. This is a clear reference to the future unity of civil and priestly. King David was a type of Messiah to come. Was he not a priest? Did he not reign as a priest in the order of Melchizedek?

  83. Stan Levy says:

    David Brownfield , David, did you read Zech 12:6?? Begin reading from verse 9, you will see that their were two thrones during the 2nd temple times..One for Joshua son of Jehozadak, the Kohen Gadol (High Priest) and the other one for Zema (Zerubbabel) who was governor and who sat on his throne when G-d gave him the signet ring..

    No, King David was not a priest. The priests were from the tribe of Levi. David was from Judah

    When David sent for the ephod to inquire of the LORD, he asked Ahimelech the high priest to bring it. Presumably the inquiry was through Ahimelech, if the precedent of the instruction given to Joshua, the successor to Moses, was relevant. Joshua was told to inquire of the Lord through the high priest. Numbers 27:21:… >>>>>>>>> David…you trust your New Testament that it knows it's history, right??..Read Mark 2:23-26..Mark has no idea who the high priest was at the time of King David. It says Abiathar was the high priest. Turn your bible to 1 samuel 21:1-4 and you will see that it is not Abiathar but rather Ahimelech who was the high priest.

    It was a seriously wrong thing to take the responsibilities of a priest to oneself, under the law of Moses. We see examples of this in the following incidents:
    King Saul offering the burnt offering and the peace offering which he should have left for Samuel the priest to offer. Samuel told him he had done foolishly and had not kept the command of the LORD. 1 Sam 13:9-13
    King Uzziah took it upon himself to burn incense on the incense alter and was struck by God with leprosy in the forehead for doing so. 2 Chron 26:16-20:

  84. Stan Levy says:

    Maria, I already replied to most of what you wrote on november 24 @10:18 pm..I want to also respond to your claims about Jesus being the lamb that G-d told Abraham that he would eventually provide.

    You seem to want to ignore that G-d did provide a lamb to Israel as promised but it was not Jesus.

    When Pharoah said he was going to kill the first born of Israel G-d turned the tables on Pharoah and took an animal that was sacred to Egyptians, a lamb..

    G-d commanded Israel to slaughter the Egyptian sacred animal and use its blood to place on the door posts of the homes of Jewish first born.

    The angels of death passed over the Jewish homes and instead killed the first born of the Egyptians..That is what G-d meant when he told Abraham that he would provide him with a lamb…

    Finally, "Israel was not in sin" and a human sacrifice for their sin would make no sense. These events occurred before they left Egypt and before the Torah was given to Israel.

  85. Uri Yosef says:

    Maria Elena Arias Martinez, And your proof is? This is common Christian gibberish that is fashioned in order to deny the truth of traditional Judaism.

  86. Uri Yosef says:

    Maria Elena Arias Martinez, And your proof is? This is common Christian gibberish that is fashioned in order to deny the truth of traditional Judaism.

  87. Uri Yosef says:

    Maria, As a Christian you are entitled to believe whatever the Church has told you. However, that information isn't necessarily the truth. As to "Isaiah 53", I recommend that you read the material at this link – http://www.jewishisaiah53.com/.

  88. Uri Yosef says:

    Maria, If you really want to learn what Zechariah 12 is all about, I refer you to this link – http://thejewishhome.org/counter/Zech12_10.pdf

  89. Uri Yosef says:

    The only thing such debates prove is who has the better "stage presence", not who has the better knowledge. That is the reason I have turned down challenges to debate the missionary "proof-texts" and other claims.

  90. Stan Levy, Psalm 110, David was a PRIEST in the order of Melchizedek. The red herring used by anti-missionaries today is to focus the interpretation of Melchizedek as a agglutinated improper noun which translates "as rightful king rather" than left as Melchizedek. Whether is should be translated priest in the order of rightful king or priest in the order of Melchizedek is not relevant to the fact the DAVID WAS REFERRED TO AS A PRIEST.

    Stan, everyone knows that Judahites can not be Levitical priests. What the Levites were incapable of administering and accomplishing King Messiah will do as the righteous priest. He will make kapora for the nation.

  91. Uri Yosef says:

    David, You seem to either ignore or not know that all those are not the P'shat (plain reading of the text), and that, per Jewish hermeneutics & exegesis (much of which was developed by those early Sages), ONLY the P'shat serves as a basis for prophecy as far as it concerns the Hebrew Bible.

  92. Stan Levy, the New Testament provides details about first century Israel that the Talmud does not report about until a century or so later; concerning, political figures, geography, customs, interpretations of Jewish thought (much in the line of the Targummim and second temple judaism,) historical narrative, political sects. The Brit haHadasha is a Jewish book. Yes I trust its accuracy because we have every reason to. Non messianic authors Daniel Boyarin and Amy Jill Levin both cover this topic of the Jewishness of the NT quite thoroughly.

  93. Uri Yosef , actually, messiah in Isaiah 53 is true to the peshat. Uri, can the sick heal the sick? How can Israel be atonement for the nations when Isaiah chapter 3 refers to them as "Sodom, "Jerusalem staggers,
    Judah is falling;
    their words and deeds are against the Lord,
    defying his glorious presence.
    9 The look on their faces testifies against them;
    they parade their sin like Sodom;
    they do not hide it.
    Woe to them!
    They have brought disaster upon themselves."

    Maybe Sodom doesn't mean Sodom. Maybe Jerusalem doesn't mean Jerusalem. Maybe "their words and deeds are against the Lord," does mean that their words and deeds are against the Lord.

  94. Stan Levy, the gentile nations are speaking in Isaiah 53? That is not true to the peshat. The sick can not heal the sick? Israel can not provide atonement for itself or the nations. Can those who parade their sins like Sodom be the holy eternal atonement. Everlasting atonement is the role of HaShem through his Son. Av and ben united in the same house- the evan, the stone will be the foundation of the Bait haMiqdash. Messiah is the Evan Bochen- the stone by which we will be tested.

  95. Stan Levy says:

    David Brownfield ,david, you are ignoring the evidence provided in a couple of places in this thread of which addressed Isaiah 53. I did not see you address one point to counter..Uri is correct, only p'shat serves as a basis for prophecy.. I have spent many hours showing proof-text that Isaiah 53 is about Israel, yet you nor anyone else from this thread have been able to or willing to refute each and every point made..Infact you have not refuted anything I have brought forth and I have addressed and responded to practically everyone in this thead. Not one person addresses and attempts to refute the evidence I bring forth which tells me there is very little knowledge of Tanach by those who are believers in this thread.. I will wait to see who will step up to the plate but I am not holding my breath..This is why Christianity cannot be true..

  96. Stan Levy says:

    I am hoping that from now on believers who are partaking in this thread will begin to play on level playing field..When believers make claims I have taken my time to address their claims point by point and to use scripture to back up everything I say..If I see that the believers are going to ignore my evidence and not address the evidence shown than I will just look for others to dialogue with…Maria Martinez seems to want to post links rather than address the evidence point by point…I am hoping that David will step up to the plate and readk all my responses and begin to respond to my evidence..

  97. Stan Levy says:

    Corrrection..did you read Zech 6:9..sorry about that..

  98. Stan Levy says:

    This board can become confusing so I will address David Brownfield and all Christians who believe Israel cannot be saved because of their sins without belief in jesus/yeshua who they claim died for everyones sins…I hope this post wil change your mind..
    This post is directed to not only David Brownfield but to all New Testament believers, believers in Jesus/Yeshua.

    David, you and all Christians love to show the failings of Israel but you seem to want to ignore the promises of G-d (G-d's Word does not change) promising Israel that they will be saved and be returned to the promised land..

    What you don't understand is because of our sins Israel has been punished twice by G-d in it's 3300 years of existence.

    1. Israel placed into exile after the destruction of the 1st Temple.

    2. Israel's current exile after the destruction of the 2nd Temple in 70 AD..

    Lets examine the promises by G-d to save Israel from it's current captivity and to bring them to the promised land at the end of days..

    1. Micah 7:15-16 Nations will be astonished and confounded to see Israel's might.

    2. Isaiah 41:11, all those (gentiles) who have been incensed against you shall be ashamed and confounded and all those who quarreled with you shall be as naught and be lost.

    3. Jeremiah 16:19..At the end of days the gentiles shall come onto G-d from the ends of the earth and admit that their fathers have inherited lies, vanity and things wherein there is no benefit..
    And for those who believe that Jesus is G-d, Verse 20 says, "shall a man make gods unto himself , and they are no gods? (If Israel is wrong in it's understanding of G-d and messiah then why is it not Israel that is spoken about in Jeremiah 16) The answer is obvious.

  99. Stan Levy says:

    4. Isaiah 49:3 Israel who G-d calls His servant says, "Oh Israel whom I will be glorified".

    5. Psalms 136:22.."Even a heritage unto Israel His servant; for His MERCY ENDURES FOREVER".

    6. Isaiah 52:9-12..G-d comforts His people and speaks to the gentile nations to show them His physical salvation of Israel..

    7. Isaiah 54:7-10.. G-d says " for a small moment have I forsaken you and with great mercy will I gather you"…10. "For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you , neither shall the covenant of My people totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion for you.

    8. Isaiah 40:2..Israel's iniquities have been appeased for she has taken from the hand of the Lord double for all her sins..(a) Israel's sins, (b) sins of the gentiles against Israel.

    9. Zech 1:15..G-d is angry with the gentiles who helped do harm to Israel.

    10. Isaiah 62:2-4, 12..at the end of days the gentiles shall see the righteousness of Israel and all their kings will see our glory.12.The gentiles shall call Israel the holy people.

    11. Jeremiah 30:8-13..at the end of days G-d will remove the yoke off of our necks and He will break our thongs saying, no longer shall the gentiles enslave Israel. 11. G-d says he will make an end of all the gentile nations but of Israel he will not completely destroy.

    12.. Isaiah 61:6-9..G-d says that at the end of days Israel shall be said of you by the gentiles "The Priests of the Lord"…Israel will "inherit" the possessions of the nations which Israel shall eat.
    The glory that the gentiles had, Israel shall succeed them,(inherit) the glory from the gentiles that they once had..
    Verse 7. Instead of your shame (Israel's shame), which was two-fold and your disgrace (Israel's disgrace),the gentiles will inherit both the shame and disgrace twofold. 8. Israel's seed shall be known among the gentiles, and their offspring among the gentiles, and they shall recognize that Israel is the seed that the Lord blessed.

    Zech 8:13,23…As Israel was a curse among the gentiles, G-d will save Israel and Israel will be a blessing. G-d says not to fear, and may our hands be strengthened.
    In those days 10 men of all the languages of the gentiles shall take hold of the skirt of Jews saying "LET US GO WITH YOU ,FOR WE HAVE HEARD THAT GOD IS WITH YOU".

    Isaiah 2:2-5..At the end of days the gentiles shall stream to the mountain of the Lords house and they shall say, "Come, let us go up to the Lord's mount, to the House of the G-d of Jacob, and let Him teach us His ways, and we will go in His paths," for out of Zion shall the Torah come forth, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem..O house of Jacob, come let us go in the light of the Lord."

    Ezekiel 34:27, 29-30. At the end of days G-d says, "and they (Israel) shall no longer bear the shame(sin)(disgrace) of the gentiles. Verse 30.Then they (gentiles) shall know that I, G-d, their (Israel's) Lord, am with them, and they are My people, the family of Israel – the words of my Lord, G-d.

    Jeremiah 31:30-36 (31-37)..At the end of days, G-d said he will form a new covenant (contract) with Judah and with Israel when he re-unites them as one stick. At Sinai G-d gave Israel a choice of following His Torah or not following it..If we follow it good will come to us if not then good will not come to us..

    In the new covenant G-d changes the rules..No longer will we have a choice to follow Torah but rather the Torah will be inscribed in our hearts and minds so we will do them and they shall be G-d's people.(This is future and has not occurred yet) This will come about when "And no longer shall one teach his neighbor or one teaches his brother, saying, "know the Lord," for they shall all know Me.. (here is what David Brownfield and all Christians fail to understand,) Verse 33.."FOR I WILL FORGIVE THEIR INIQUITY AND THEIR SIN I WILL NO LONGER REMEMBER".

    In all the examples I have shown above, not once did G-d place a condition that we must believe and follow a messiah who dies for sins and resurrects..NOT ONCE IN THE ENTIRE TANACH..

  100. Stan Levy says:


  101. Stan Levy says:

    Maria, I have given you the courtesy of reviewing each one of your videos as linked here in and now I am asking you in return to respond and refute my claims verse by verse as put forth by me in this thread..

  102. I was not ignoring you nor simply using links to reply. It was Thanksgiving Day and I have been busy enjoying food and family and the computer was the least of my things to get to. I will begin to reply back in detail as I read the messages above.

  103. Three times I've written long messages and 3 times I've been deleted. So I will only use one example of the coming Messiah. It requires a little bit of math but please read this from Daniel 9

    The Seventy “Sevens”

    20While I was speaking and praying, confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel and making my request to the Lord my God for his holy hill— 21while I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice. 22He instructed me and said to me, “Daniel, I have now come to give you insight and understanding. 23As soon as you began to pray, a word went out, which I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed. Therefore, consider the word and understand the vision:

    24“Seventy ‘sevens’c are decreed for your people and your holy city to finishd transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.e

    25“Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,f the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.g The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’h In the middle of the ‘seven’i he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the templej he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.k ”l

  104. Stan Levy says:

    Maria, you have to send your replies in parts..follow my lead like the ones I responded to you that were in two parts.. It may need more than 3 parts and if so then send it in 3 parts..If you notice when its too long you will see the words "See More" if there is more to read..

  105. Stan Levy says:

    PS.. Maria, I don't think I addressed Dan 9 yet on this thread.. I would appreciate that you continue to address the responses we are sending you about subjects that you have created..It is important that you review my posts and to try to refute what I am claiming. But please remember, I am not giving a personal opinion, I am using G-ds Holy Words from Tanach to make my case..

  106. Stan Levy so am I. I have not used any Christian scriptures. And I did reply in whole because they all lead to the same thing, G-d's protection of the nation of Israel, not against Christians who did not exist at that time.

  107. Stan Levy says:

    Maria and all believers in this thread, I am very well aware of Christianities understanding of Dan 9:1-27 but there are so many flaws in their translation and understanding would eliminate any possibility that Jesus lived during the 2nd temple times..I have just finished putting our Jewish understanding in a format that will hopefully be easy for you to follow…It also is long and will need to be read in parts.. between 2 and 3 parts..

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