web analytics
July 13, 2014 / 15 Tammuz, 5774
Israel at War: Operation Protective Edge
 
 
At a Glance
Judaism
Sponsored Post
Meir Panim's Restaurant in Tiberias Restaurant in Tiberias Enriches Holocaust Survivors’ Wellbeing

The generosity of Mrs. Lee Steinberg of New York helped establish the Meir Panim Free Restaurant in Tiberias.



Q & A: Chazzan And Congregation (Part II)


QuestionsandAnswers-logo

Question: I understand that at a minyan, the chazzan is required to repeat Shmoneh Esreh out loud so that people who may not know how to daven can fulfill their obligation to daven with the chazzan’s repetition. What, however, should the chazzan do when he reaches kedushah and Modim? I hear some chazzanim say every word of kedushah out loud and some only say the last part of the middle two phrases out loud. As far as the congregation is concerned, I hear some congregants say every word of kedushah and some say only the last part. Finally, some chazzanim and congregants say Modim during chazaras hashatz out loud and some say it quietly. What is the source for these various practices?

A Devoted Reader
(Via E-Mail)

Answer: The Shulchan Aruch Harav (Orach Chayim 124:1) explains that a chazzan repeats Shemoneh Esreh out loud so that people who cannot pray themselves can fulfill their prayer obligation. Those who can pray themselves do not fulfill their obligation with the chazzan’s repetition. Even someone who cannot pray discharges his obligation only when he and at least nine others listen to, and concentrate, on chazarat hashatz, responding “Amen” after each blessing.

In Rosh Hashana 33b-34a, the Sages rule that the chazzan only discharges the obligation of people who do not how to pray themselves. Rabban Gamliel rules that the chazzan discharges the obligation of everyone. Tosafot (Rosh Hashanah 34b s.v. “Kach motzi et habaki”) cites the Ba’al Halachot Gedolot to show that a chazzan’s repetition can discharge the obligation of someone who forgot to say Ya’aleh Veyavo during Shemoneh Esreh on Rosh Chodesh even if he is versed in prayer.

Tosafot dispute this ruling, citing Rabin in the name of R. Yaakov and R. Shimon Chassida, arguing that Rabban Gamliel only ruled that the chazzan discharges the obligation of workers in the fields who are excluded from communal prayer and not of city workers who have breaks. They must pray themselves and cannot rely on the chazzan. Tosafot, however, reconciles the Ba’al Halachot Gedolot’s ruling with that of Rabban Gamliel by stating that the chazzan only fails to discharge the obligation of city workers if they didn’t pray. If they did, their tefillah b’tzibbur obligation is discharged by listening to chazarat hashatz, even if they do not understand it.

The Aruch Hashulchan (Orach Chayim 124:2) and others agree that those unversed but present for tefillah are no worse than those (like workers in the field) who, due to circumstances beyond their control, are unable to attend prayers; as such, chazarat hashatz discharges their obligation.

* * * * *

The Mechaber (Orach Chayim 125:1) states that the congregation does not recite “Nakdishach” together with the chazzan. Rather, it remains silent as it concentrates on the chazzan’s recitation of these words until he reaches kedushah. At that point, the congregation says, “Kadosh, kadosh….”

The Shulchan Aruch Harav (O.C. 125:1) makes a comparison to clarify this point. “Just as with the mitzvah of Kaddish the chazzan recites ‘Yitgadeil’ on behalf of the entire congregation and it responds ‘Amen, yehei shmei rabba mevorach,’ so too with the mitzvah of Kedushah: the chazzan recites ‘Nakdishach’ or ‘Nekadesh’ as the congregation remains silent, concentrating on the chazzan’s recitation, until he reaches [‘Kadosh, kadosh’] and then it responds ‘Kadosh, kadosh….’ The same applies in regards to ‘leumat’acha’ and ‘u’b’divrei kad’shecha.’ This rule applies even if there are nine others besides him listening to and concentrating on the chazzan’s every word.”

The Shulchan Aruch Harav, citing the Taz, writes further, “If a person wishes to recite word for word with the chazzan quietly, there is no violation involved since they are reciting each word together and, therefore, their joint recital in considered as one. Nevertheless, a priori, one should not do so except in extreme circumstances.”

“Now, all of this,” the Shulchan Aruch Harav explains, “applies to individuals who choose to say ‘Nakdishach’ along with the chazzan. If, however, the entire congregation is accustomed to reciting ‘Nakdishach’ with the chazzan, even though it is not quietly saying word for word with him, there is no reason to protest since it is sanctifying [with the recital of the full kedushah text] in the presence of 10. This group, however, is not called a tzibbur – a tzibbur only exists when one recites and nine [or more] listen and respond. Rather, they are considered yechidim.

About the Author: Rabbi Yaakov Klass, rav of Congregation K’hal Bnei Matisyahu in Flatbush, Brooklyn, is Torah Editor of The Jewish Press. He can be contacted at yklass@jewishpress.com.


If you don't see your comment after publishing it, refresh the page.

Our comments section is intended for meaningful responses and debates in a civilized manner. We ask that you respect the fact that we are a religious Jewish website and avoid inappropriate language at all cost.

If you promote any foreign religions, gods or messiahs, lies about Israel, anti-Semitism, or advocate violence (except against terrorists), your permission to comment may be revoked.

No Responses to “Q & A: Chazzan And Congregation (Part II)”

Comments are closed.

SocialTwist Tell-a-Friend

Current Top Story
Egyptian guards at the border with the Gaza Strip following Egyptian court ban on Hamas. March 5, 2014
Arab World Hopes Israel Continues Operation and Destroys Hamas
Latest Judaism Stories
Leff-071114

Sometimes when Chazal say that two different people are really one, they do not mean it literally, but rather figuratively.

Pinchas 10 Minute Parsha

The midrash says that Pinchas, (this parsha), and Eliyahu, prophet of Kings, are one and the same.

Lessons-Emunah-logo

The simple act of kindness should be the reward itself. Anything more in the form of a reward is gravy.

Business-Halacha-logo

“It is sometimes possible through hataras nedarim, nullification of vows,” replied Rabbi Dayan, “but it’s not simple for charity pledges.

The kohen gadol may not enter the Temple unless his hair is cut every seven days.

We need to understand why Moshe Rabbeinu decided to ask that his sons inherit his position after this new halacha was introduced.

Ancient Cities, Ancient Walls
(Megillah 3b-4a)

Question: I recently returned from a trip abroad and wanted to say HaGomel. When I mentioned this to the officers of my synagogue, however, they told me – as per the instructions of the synagogue’s rabbi – that I would have to wait until Shabbos to do so. I was not given any reason for this and did not wish to display my ignorance, so I quietly acquiesced. Can you please explain why I had to wait?

Name Withheld
(Via E-Mail)

Moshe served dual major roles for bnei Yisrael. He was their teacher and their leader.

An opinion recorded in the Talmud states that prayers correspond to the daily sacrifices offered in the Temple that are mentioned in this week’s portion (Berachot 26b, Numbers 28:4). It’s been argued that this opinion may be the conceptual base for our standardized prayer. Since sacrifices had detailed structure, our prayers also have a set text. […]

Is the fact that we can spend time with our families just a fringe benefit of Shabbos or an integral aspect?

Respect for basic human dignity is such a powerful concept that it overwhelms some areas of Jewish law.

If it is not prohibited when there is a purpose for inflicting the tza’ar, why was Bilam chastised for tza’ar ba’alei chaim?

Question: I recently returned from a trip abroad and wanted to say HaGomel. When I mentioned this to the officers of my synagogue, however, they told me – as per the instructions of the synagogue’s rabbi – that I would have to wait until Shabbos to do so. I was not given any reason for this and did not wish to display my ignorance, so I quietly acquiesced. Can you please explain why I had to wait?

Name Withheld
(Via E-Mail)

More Articles from Rabbi Yaakov Klass
Questions-Answers-logo

Question: I recently returned from a trip abroad and wanted to say HaGomel. When I mentioned this to the officers of my synagogue, however, they told me – as per the instructions of the synagogue’s rabbi – that I would have to wait until Shabbos to do so. I was not given any reason for this and did not wish to display my ignorance, so I quietly acquiesced. Can you please explain why I had to wait?

Name Withheld
(Via E-Mail)

Question: I recently returned from a trip abroad and wanted to say HaGomel. When I mentioned this to the officers of my synagogue, however, they told me – as per the instructions of the synagogue’s rabbi – that I would have to wait until Shabbos to do so. I was not given any reason for this and did not wish to display my ignorance, so I quietly acquiesced. Can you please explain why I had to wait?

Name Withheld
(Via E-Mail)

Question: I recently returned from a trip abroad and wanted to say HaGomel. When I mentioned this to the officers of my synagogue, however, they told me – as per the instructions of the synagogue’s rabbi – that I would have to wait until Shabbos to do so. I was not given any reason for this and did not wish to display my ignorance, so I quietly acquiesced. Can you please explain why I had to wait?

Name Withheld
(Via E-Mail)

Question: I recently returned from a trip abroad and wanted to say HaGomel. When I mentioned this to the officers of my synagogue, however, they told me – as per the instructions of the synagogue’s rabbi – that I would have to wait until Shabbos to do so. I was not given any reason for this and did not wish to display my ignorance, so I quietly acquiesced. Can you please explain why I had to wait?

Name Withheld
(Via E-Mail)

    Latest Poll

    Israel's Iron Dome Anti-Missile System:





    View Results

    Loading ... Loading ...

Printed from: http://www.jewishpress.com/judaism/ask-the-rabbi/q-a-chazzan-and-congregation-part-ii/2012/05/16/

Scan this QR code to visit this page online: