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October 20, 2014 / 26 Tishri, 5775
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Missionaries Try to Convert Jerusalem Kashrut Supervisor – Lose Certification

It's never a good idea to try to convert the Rabbi.

Letter about Kashrut Revocation for Cafe Porta

Letter about Kashrut Revocation for Cafe Porta
Photo Credit: HaKol HaYehudi

Following an investigation by the anti-missionary organization Yad L’Achim into ‘Cafe Porta’, located in the Clal building in Jerusalem, the organization reported to the Kashrut division of Jerusalem’s Religious Authority that the cafe appears to be a missionary center.

Missionary activity is frowned upon in Israel, and illegal in certain circumstances.

At first, the Kashrut division had no proof, nor any legal steps they could take against the cafe.

But when the Kashrut division sent its own inspectors to check on the report, they were taken by surprise when the owners gave missionary material, including a New Testament, to the Kashrut supervisor, apparently in an attempt to begin the proselytization process on the Rabbi.

Needless to say, the Kashrut certification for the cafe was immediately revoked.

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200 Responses to “Missionaries Try to Convert Jerusalem Kashrut Supervisor – Lose Certification”

  1. Jamie Nachinson says:

    גירש אותם

  2. Frank Bright says:

    It is not a good idea to try and convert any Jewish person let along a Rabbi.

  3. Frank Bright says:

    It is not a good idea to try and convert any Jewish person let along a Rabbi.

  4. Melinda Kay Rhodes Godwin says:

    Yeshua is the Messiah

  5. Some messiah… A complete failure in prophecy.

  6. Some messiah… A complete failure in prophecy.

  7. Andrew Hurwitz says:

    Some messiah… A complete failure in prophecy.

  8. It evidently is a very rewarding effort for Christian missionaries in Israel (and elsewhere). Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proselytization_and_counter-proselytization_of_Jews

  9. It evidently is a very rewarding effort for Christian missionaries in Israel (and elsewhere). Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proselytization_and_counter-proselytization_of_Jews

  10. Shemaya Shiloh says:

    It evidently is a very rewarding effort for Christian missionaries in Israel (and elsewhere). Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proselytization_and_counter-proselytization_of_Jews and Israel’s missionary laws are too lenient. I am working on some guy named Sid Roth and in his book he tells messianics that Israel ‘is their heritage’ i.e., make aliya as Christians posing as Jews under Law of Return with walking orders safely funded and programmed in the US and I imagine fill Israel with Christianized Jews. Taking a kashrut certificate seems a little anti-climactic. Christians out of Israel by any means.

  11. I was a Christian. Jesus is not the messiah, and Christianity is not even related to him anyway.

  12. Shemaya Shiloh says:

    I was a Christian. Jesus is not the messiah, and Christianity is not even related to him anyway.

  13. Joyce Myers says:

    Funny Jewish people do not have missionaries..who needs them???

  14. Joyce Myers says:

    Funny Jewish people do not have missionaries..who needs them???

  15. Cindy Zemel says:

    born jewish, will die jewish and am a proud zionist

  16. Cindy Zemel says:

    born jewish, will die jewish and am a proud zionist

  17. This is beyond ridiculous – it’s ludicrous – I never cease to be dismayed.

  18. Shirley Gruenhut says:

    This is beyond ridiculous – it’s ludicrous – I never cease to be dismayed.

  19. John Newman says:

    They target Jews and ignore fellow Christians.

  20. John Newman says:

    They target Jews and ignore fellow Christians.

  21. The Mashgiach should have pulled a Michael Ben Ari and ripped it up

  22. Judy Lash Balint says:

    Not a huge surprise. The Clal building is the headquarters of the King of Kings Messianic group. http://www.kkcj.org/. They have all their events in the Pavilion, downstairs on the P1 level of the building…

  23. Missionary activity isn't illegal in Israel, although offering inducements for conversion is illegal. And I'd say it's not very sporting to revoke the place's license without actually finding that the food was being irradiated by Christian prayers or something.

  24. Missionary activity isn't illegal in Israel, although offering inducements for conversion is illegal. And I'd say it's not very sporting to revoke the place's license without actually finding that the food was being irradiated by Christian prayers or something.

  25. Dave Bender says:

    Which one is this cafe – is it the one on the middle, at the bottom level?

  26. Anonymous says:

    Wrong decision! It reminds same principle and agenda of Sharia. Lack of Reciprocity worldwide and especially with Islam produced 1Million Christian martyrs in last decade. Mainstream Judaism and Israel is sending the wrong message to Christianity. Let me anyway tell the plain truth about this matter: Biblical Conservative Christianity has been the backbone of freedom in the West from the time of the Mayflower. If the Rabbinical authority believes it is in the Truth freedom is the beast symptoms and strategy… otherwise you are another Sharia stronghold = most successful bunch of looser in History.

  27. What's wrong with politely saying, "No thank you. I'm not interested" when handed literature or a New Testament?

  28. Laura Anddavid says:

    Sickening.

  29. Malkah Sorel says:

    as xtians believe that eating kosher is not valid for the Jews i should think that the food is imbued with the essence of port, squid and strip to say the least

  30. Malkah Sorel says:

    aka pig, squid and prawns

  31. This is makes me sad considering the history of Jews and Christians. We are all God's children thanks to Y'shua Messiah. Messiah came before the destruction of the second temple.
    Dani'el 9:24-27
    24 Shivi’im heptads is decreed upon thy people and upon thy Ir Kodesh (Holy City), to restrain the peysha (transgression), and to make an end of chattat (sin), and to make kapporah for avon, and to bring in Tzedek Olamim (Everlasting Righteousness), and to seal up the chazon and navi, and to anoint the Kodesh HaKodashim.
    25 Have da’as, therefore, and get seichel, that from the going forth of the decree to restore and to rebuild Yerushalayim unto Moshiach Nagid shall be shivah heptads, and threescore and two heptads; the rechov shall be built again, and the charutz, even in troublous times.
    26 And after threescore and two heptads, yikaret (will be cut off) Moshiach [Yeshayah 53:8], but not for himself [Yeshayah 53:4-6,8]; and the troops of the coming nagid shall destroy the Ir and the Kodesh (Beis Hamikdash, i.e., 70.C.E.); and the end thereof shall come with a flood, and unto the end there shall be war. Desolations are determined.
    27 And he shall confirm brit (covenant) with rabbim for one heptad; and in the midst of the heptad he shall cause the zevach and the minchah to cease, and on the kenaf (wing) of the abominations is one making desolate, even until the complete destruction, a destruction that is decreed, shall be poured out upon the Shomem (Desolator, Destroyer).

  32. Israel is bigoted just like Pakistan, Iran and Saudi Arabia! It does not tolerate religious freedom or diversity.

  33. aryehsax says:

    The Rabbi’s were right to revoke the Kashrut certification, and to compare it with Sharia law is comparing Abe Lincoln to Jefferson Davis. Under Sharia law there would be  more then losing certification. Maybe imprisonment or losing your life.

  34. JayIsaac says:

    For many people the kashrut certificate is an indication the eatery is not just kosher, but an acceptable environment. The removal of the certificate, under these circumstances is perfectly legitimate. Spare us the comparisons with Sharia law. No one is forcing them to do anything. There is no “constitutional right” to a kashrut certificate. On the contrary, to force the rabbinate to grant certification to a place that promotes conversion would be a violation of its religious conscience!

  35. truthseekr says:

    I beg to differ with comments above. To my understanding, missionaries have to have a license to proselytize, or it is illegal. King of Kings probably has one, but maybe the cafe doesn’t. Regardless, to compare Israel’s regulations of missionaries to Sharia is way off base. Jews get very tired of being harassed by Christians trying to push a false faith down our throats. By regulating who can proselytize and how, the Israeli govt is protecting its citizens from continual subterfuge and misleading enticements of Christian missionaries. We’ve all been approached by those who pretend to be Jewish, only to spring a false messiah on us later on. We no longer will tolerate that, and I’m one citizen who’s glad for that.

  36. pinspire says:

    Christians need to understand that it is disrespectful to the Jewish religion to try to convert Jews to Christianity. Just as Jews respect the Christian faith and never attempt to convert them, they should respect the Jewish faith as well. The Bnei Noah Christians get this and even encourage Jews who lost their faith to return to their faith-very commendable!

  37. David Negley says:

    Malkah Sorel, your response reflects ignorance of the Messianic community. While there are Christians who teach that kashrut is no longer necessary, there are many Jewish followers of Messiah who are quite Torah observant. And this idea that "essence of" traif would be deliberately added to food in order to make it unclean is just silly–even anti-Torah Christians simply don't care enough to bother going to such lengths.

  38. These bull****ers realy have no measure!? If some of them come to my place they would swallow that 'testament' for sure! *******s. Go and prozelyte the Pope along with his Vatican gangsters :)

  39. Ray Watson says:

    I must let you know NOBODY can "covert" someone else. ONLY GOD can covert the soul of man. I can can not convert anybody. If you are Jewish you can convert and become a Christian, buy the good news is that you will still be a JEW.

  40. To the best of my knowledge, Israel doesn't behead missionaries. They just revoke their Kosher certification, which is not quite as serious.

  41. We were Jews before Jesus, and we don't need any newfangled religion. When God comes back to Sinai and says "I changed my mind" we'll talk.

  42. Not remotely true. You can be whatever religion you want but you don't get to push it on others. The rest of the middle east has one religion and all others are illegal. The world headquarters of the Bahai faith is in Israel, just as an example.

  43. Yeah, like being a Buddhist Muslim. A Christian is not a Jew and a Jew is not a Christian.

  44. In theory, you're right. But when your history is one of forced conversion or death, being polite is not the first thing that comes to your mind.

  45. Luana Fabri Goriss says:

    Very good. Will missionary chutzpah never end?

  46. Lisa Liel says:

    What a bunch of idiots.

  47. Jennifer Badani says:

    I just found out that there's 9 palestinian news wires in Israel. Some are funded by Hamas & Saudi Arabia. There's only 1 jewish news wire in Israel.

  48. Robin Schwartz says:

    A Jew always remains a Jew. A Jew who converts to another religion is a Jew who is in the wrong–but still and always a Jew.

  49. Malkah Sorel says:

    Because xtianity lacks spirituality essence is automatically assumed to be a physical essence. Very interesting. If they were Torah observant they certainly would be idolators even if it is a Jewish Human they are seeking to Idolise

  50. Robin Schwartz says:

    This is an example of knee-jerk moral relativism. The fact that you can make ANY comparison between sharia and Israeli law automatically invalidates your argument, IMHO

  51. Malkah Sorel says:

    WHy is it that Jews don't want to convert and Christians do??? Truth is a soul is what it is, Chsitianity is clipper (cloak of negativity) that people wear. The soul is what it is either Jewish or from the nations. Xtianity is just a covering and it comes from the side of impurity, end of story

  52. Malkah Sorel says:

    WHy is it that Jews don't want to convert and Christians do??? Truth is a soul is what it is, Chsitianity is clipper (cloak of negativity) that people wear. The soul is what it is either Jewish or from the nations. Xtianity is just a covering and it comes from the side of impurity, end of story

  53. Joseph Colen says:

    Jews have to learn to say no without going into political correctness and all the junk that is used by them in our society. We have to be able to discuss religion where necessary without using the political system and without using violence.

    W

  54. Joseph Colen says:

    Jews have to learn to say no without going into political correctness and all the junk that is used by them in our society. We have to be able to discuss religion where necessary without using the political system and without using violence.

    W

  55. Must be a big feather on their hat if they succeed to convert a Jew. After all that's what they trying to do in the last two thousand years, with a zero result.

  56. Malkah Sorel says:

    What a load of twaddle Mr Watts

  57. Malkah Sorel says:

    Georgia, What is wrong with allowing pornography to be handed to your husband on his way to work, or a brothel next to your children's school.

  58. Malkah Sorel says:

    Kashrut basics unless one is shomer shabbat (including real Torah observance) a Jew is not allowed to eat the food. From a halachic perspective they had to remove the certification

  59. How ironic I'm reading this today. I converted from Catholicism to Orthodox Judaism 34 years ago on 14 Chesvan. This is definitely a message

  60. Lou Loomis says:

    Jews are easy targets (Pew Report). Too many are either uneducated about their Judaism or just don't care. Maybe it's time to start doing Jewish missionary work, first on our own, and then on the gentiles.

  61. Wow! Just handing out a book and some material about his religious faith in the Messiah is enough to convert a person. Who knew it was so easy? All believers in Yeshua should try doing that, by 2015 the whole world will believe in him! For a country like Israel that is supposed to be free this is a disgrace. Either the leaders believe the people are so weak minded that they can't think for themselves or they believe that the evidence is to compelling.That messianic ideas might prove sound in the light of day if given a fair chance. I think I'll go to Jerusalem and pass out booklets about unicorns. Perhaps I can get everyone to believe in them. No one can make you believe in Yeshua. Only G-d changes the heart.

  62. Yair Lax says:

    Whats wrong with offering poision, to the uneducated ?

  63. Yair Lax says:

    Your a special kind of special !!!

  64. Anonymous says:

    If a Jew believes that J.C. was Mashiach, he/she is NOT "Torah observant," by definition! Hashem clearly states what will happen when Mashiach comes, and they ain't happened yet. In addition, Hashem clearly states what to do when someone comes along and claims to be Mashiach but is merely a wannabe, as happened in that case.

  65. Anonymous says:

    Bravo to Yad L'Achim and bravo to Jerusalem's Religious Authority!

  66. Yair Lax says:

    Goldberg wants to buy his worker a present. He goes to the jewlery store and sees a cross. He asks the salesman How much is dat vun ? He hears the price and says its to much, How much without the "MAMZER" ?

  67. Dotti Lamont says:

    What were those Yad L'Achim people doing there…they were just asking for hearing the Messianic Yeshua news…just what they wanted…don't they know that restaurant in the Chal bldg. is Messianic? Yes, they did…they didn't belong there, they are trouble makers!

  68. Tabitha Elkins says:

    Malkah Sorel It's a sad history that a small Jewish offshoot group run by a rabbi (Yeshua) was overrun by pagan Romans and turned into a tool of oppression against Jewish people. If you could separate the pagan crap out of the REAL message of Yeshua, you would see that his teachings are VERY Jewish.

  69. Christianity compared to Jusdaism is like comparing Physics to tinker toys – The DEEP infinite and mysterious Universe to an inch of water in the gutter. Oh, and Jesus was the bastard son of a whore…

  70. It's been done sir with stunning success. First there was Jesus, testified to and confirmed in Scripture. Then came Peter, the illustrious Saul of Tarsus (Paul) and countless other Jews we Lee our faith to. As Jesus says….salvation is from the Jews.

  71. There is a wonder organization, Jews for Judaism. Great info and they are good at speaking to teenagers. Temples have to be much more welcoming to gentiles , even if it's only to get to know us. My temple is great at that. We have a number of interfaith families who are raising their kids Jewish and gentile spouse is usually incredibly active in our community. We don't pressure about conversion but many grow to love Judaism with their involvement until conversion becomes a natural step. We have a terrific Confirmation program for post b'nei mitzvah kids so they stay involved.
    When my son was in high school at Taft in Woodland Hills , large Jewish demographic, there was a missionary handing out pamphlets. Most Christians think we're "just being stubborn" about not accepting Jesus. They have no idea there are valid reasons why we don't. I have a printout from Jews for Judaism that explains why. So, after I dropped my son off at school I got out and spoke to the young man handing out the material. I had my pamphlet which I held out to him and said " I'll read yours if you'll read mine."
    I din't know what happened but he wasn't there the next day.

  72. WOW. What an extraordinary change to make.

  73. Oriana Cottard says:

    Missionaries are just like muslims, trying to converte the whole world whos is not from their so call belief!!!
    Let us Be in peace. We Jews are G-d's people do get it once for all now we don't need your sick sects!!!!

  74. You cannot be both a Christian and a Jew. Read the Shema….G_d is ONE ,can't be split, can't believe in a trinity .

  75. Ronny Mol says:

    Not sure who is right? Watch Torah and Science in English, Hebrew, Turkish and Russian at http://www.divineinformation.com and know that the Torah is divine for once and all.

  76. Yechiel Baum says:

    the checks to the Rabbinut seems to be the criteria before an inspection. It leaves people to doubt the credibility of the kashrut organizations.

  77. Hadassah Lerner says:

    Thanks for sharing this. I live here and hadn't heard about this yet!

  78. Sheera Blitz says:

    Jewish missionary for Jews is not missionary – it's restoring faith in their own religion.
    Judaism is not a religion for missionary – not everyone should be Jewish, it's not our way. Christianity & Islam seek to bring the whole world to their respective religions but it's a sheer misunderstanding of Jewish principles to seek the same for us. We need to fix the world, not convert it.

  79. Nicolle Simon says:

    Robin Schwartz – only by Nazi calculation.

  80. Nicolle Simon says:

    Firoze — Stick to subjects you know something about. There is more freedom of expression in Israel than in any other democracy — go research — and stay away from the keyboard until you learn something. Thank you from all of us.

  81. Nicolle Simon says:

    Melody Briggs-Wisdo — Well said! Thank you.

  82. Well, not quite zero but it's worked the other way too. We had a speaker at our temple once who had been a Christian missionary. A VERY scholarly man who studied Hebrew & Aramaic, went to Israel and even lived on a kibbutz ( with the caveat that he not proselytize). The more he read and learned the more he was drawn to Judaism. He eventually converted. However here's the kicker, his father is a Baptist minister. When he told his father he was going to convert his father's reaction was "If you're going to be a Jew , be a good Jew." What a mensch !

  83. Responding to Mr. Loomis, I meant to say we Christians owe our faith to the Jews who accepted G-d's fulfillment of the covenant, as only G-d could do, as he did when he put Abram into a deep sleep and performed the rite H-mself.

    The Church came out of Israel and established in Rome. It is the little rock Daniel spoke of, carved from the fourth empire that would become a mountain filling the whole earth. Hey, It's in your own book.

  84. Melody Briggs-Wisdo And it's a beautiful place open to everyone.

  85. Malkah Sorel says:

    uunlisted The important thing for these poor xtians to know is that Yeshu wasn't unique, at the time the temple stood miracles happened, even today miracles happen for the Jewish people. The religion is so childish, its no wonder that the xtian big holidays heroes are father xmas, easter bunny ……. and yes you got it Jesus Christ. All made up characters suitable for goyishe fairy tales.
    Any Rabbi who was mistaken for moschiach and turned into an idol would be tormented in his grave. If these people really love a renegade rabbi from Israel who lived 2000 years ago they should let go of the myth and let his soul rest in peace!

  86. Anonymous says:

    Israel depicts itself as a country that treats all religions equally, then we take pride in removing the Kashrut certification from a Christian owned cafe. The certification was removed because the inspector was handed a New Testament and possibly other Christian literature upon entering. It is illegal in Israel to try to proselytize while giving something material, which is considered a bribe (such as money, food, clothing, etc.) or to proselytize minors under 18. Since this is a restaurant where food is being sold, not given away, the people there were within their right to share their faith (even if you don't agree with their method). Unfortunately, this type of action, by a minority group, (albeit a minority group with an unproportional amount of power in this country) puts Israel in a bad light with the Christian world. These people are following the laws of the land, but are being punished anyway. Even more unfortunate are those of us who support these actions as being positive for our community. There is enough antisemitism in the world without us giving people reason to dislike us for being petty and overbearing. We don't need to imagine our outrage if the situations were reversed because we see examples of antisemitism everyday. Yet when we have our own country, and our own authority, we turn around and treat Christians like second class citizens.

  87. Nefertiti Egitto says:

    nn si potrebbe, gentilmente, tradurre in italiano? nn capisco bene, grazie :)

  88. Moishe Sachs says:

    That's where the comparison ends; hundreds of millions of Muslims are genocidal in their fervor, while zero Christians are. On the contrary, there are Christians, like pastor Hagee, God bless him, who, along with thousands in & out of his congregation, give millions to Israeli organizations with absolutely NO proselytization in mind. We Jewish people have a Torah obligation to share the 7 Mitzvos of Noah to the non-Jewish world population with whom we may have relationships. We are also told to not forget good people do for us & to always be kind & considerate of & to them because we were so mistreated in Egypt. I hope as I read these comments I don't see sweeping generalizations about Christians, many of whom, particularly in US, like Chriistians United for Israel, go out of their way, far more than any Jewish organization anywhere does, to support Israel with all of their heart, soul, & might. A look at their website shows that they have over 1 million members & do so, so much to support Israel. Do they have a Christian scripture page? You bet, but, & that's because they're Christians. But, they are involved in huge ways in support of Israel with NO proselytization of Jews whatsoever. Oh, that Israel would have such support from Jews in America as from http://www.cufi.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_AboutCUFI

  89. Mary Hale says:

    Mark Rigoglioso The fact is that the Roman church is not "CHRISTIAN AT ALL"..THE TRUE CHRISTIAN IS BORN AGAIN OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD, NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN MAY BOAST…WE ARE ALL SINNERS AND THAT IS WHO PUT JESUS ON THE CROSS..OUR SINS, NOT ONE CHURCH..

  90. Mary Hale says:

    ONE DAY EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW AND ACKNOWLEDGE JESUS CHRIST AS LORD..

  91. David Negley You will be surprised to what lengths they will go!!!!!!

  92. tiborspitz says:

    Missionaries
    One’s a group of Protestant clergymen asked me to give them a
    lecture explaining principles of Jewish Kabbalah.As an introduction, I asked them if they were
    JESUS’ FOLLOWERS to which they agreed. When
    I asked them about religion of Jesus, they were well aware that he was Jewish. Then
    I said, “I am Jewish and you are not.Are
    you sure to be followers or Jesus or rather am I?” After few minutes of embarrassing silence, they
    admitted that I WAS.As theologians, they
    knew that Jesus did not have even a slightest intention to create a new
    religion or change Judaism in any way. He did not participate when his name was
    hijacked and much misused by
    anti-Semites. Then I proceeded to my lecture.

  93. Florica Rudinescu says:

    lies and more lies, they are missioners ymah shmam vezihram and they do proselyte jews to convert them. Xtians were even more genocidal than muslims, they murdered jews, indiens and even the "heretics" xtians. And dont tell me that they were not "real xtians" LOL. Stop your xtian propaganda.

  94. Malkah Sorel says:

    Just think about this. The first thing that hits a xtian when his soul leaves the body and he can see clearly it that he was wrong in his belief and has been worshiping a nonentity idol. Imagine!

  95. Malkah Sorel says:

    Judahdaniel. If xtians are cooking the food unsupervised the food simply is not kosher, not fit for combustion by a Jew. He had no choice but to remove the certification. The food win kosher, no certificate

  96. Malkah Sorel says:

    Moishe Sachs Zero xtians hoimcidal. Pogrom, inquisition, crusade, Hitler went to Church you know! The catholic church as apologized for its complicity in the holocaust. Every country where xtian colonialists left their foot print are in a state of war or war readiness all funded by xtaian countries with church going leaders. All in the name of xtain democracy

  97. Malkah Sorel says:

    the food was not kosher. no certificate

  98. Moishe Sachs says:

    Your understanding of what constitutes the breaking of missionary laws in Israel seems at odds with how the secular Israeli government in the as-yet-not-Jewish-run state understands them.
    When moshiach comes, we'll have a Jewish state. The Prime Minister is not very much a practicing Jew – he breaks fundamental Jewish laws, including empowering Israel's enemies & not repatriating them to Jordan & Egypt. Whatever he says goes in Israel. I guarantee you that you don't have to worry about good Christians disliking Israel because of this particular case. Those who support Israel do so because there's no reason why not to, except that they should, as I do, regularly protest not solving the existential threat posed by millions of extremely hostile Arab Muslims west of the Jordan River. Israel's leaders have chosen instead to allow daily attacks for decades resulting in the death, dismemberment, & loss of properties of tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of innocent people, with no end in sight.

  99. James Nollet says:

    The revocation of the hechsher was ENTIRELY APPROPRIATE, and I'll tell you why.

    The laws of kashrus are part of the body of Mosaic Law. In his letters to various congregations, the Christian apostle to the Gentiles makes it ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that Mosaic Law is now a dead issue, now null and void.

    That being the case, no avowedly Christian-owned food business can be relied upon to keep the laws of kashrus.

    Therefore, they may not have a hechsher.

  100. Moishe Sachs says:

    Florica Rudinescu My comment is about Torah true Judaism & how it teaches us to consider good non-Jews. If you have a problem, take it up with God.
    I'll show you Muslims worldwide have murdered & maimed hundreds of thousands of people since 9/11. There are some anti-semitic Christians everywhere, but negligible compared to Islamists & the scale of harm they have been causing since WW2 is ZERO compared to Islamists.
    Please find me a Christian one of these before you spew your hatred,
    & this post goes for Malkah Sorel who thinks we're living in York in the 1200s or in the Inquisition. And, believe me, Malkah, it wasn't the field day living among Muslims for 1,300 years that they say it was. Read Dhimmitude, by Bat Yeor.
    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

  101. Moishe Sachs says:

    Some observant Jews have been assisting Jews into Judaism. Chabad, for instance, has done so since the 1940's, & it's a fundamental part of Chabad philosophy to do so in every way possible. Aish Hatorah also comes to mind, R. Noah Weinberg, Amnon Yitzchok, Breslov, Lakewood Kollels, etc. I'm sure in Israel there are more, like Ohr Sameiach (also in Monsey, NY).
    We aren't allowed to go out to convert anyone to Judaism, ever. We are commanded to spread the 7 Basic Laws of Humanity, or Noahide laws. Non-Jews, we are taught, are rewarded in the World to Come for all good they do, but receive a higher reward for specifically keeping to the Noahide 7 (& their 80 or so offshoots), done because they've been told by Jew(s) that God told us this at Mt. Sinai.
    Those laws help to create a just, decent society & maintain this world. Jews are to also maintain but given the ability to elevate the physical universe in ways non-Jews were not given by God, the particularly Jewish soul having the power to accomplish this. We are to be humble because of this, not as maligned by neo-Nazis that lie & say that we want or do harm to people because we think we're superior, a claim that actually reflects its accusers' thinking & sometimes actual behavior.
    http://www.noahide.org

  102. Malkah Sorel says:

    Moishe Sachs YOu worry about hostile Arabs who openly want to annihilate us, xtians want to annihilate us to, our souls are what they are after. xtians believe that Torah is not valid. They want you and every Jew to accept their man g-d as not just moshiach but as G-d. And they use fraudulent heshers to do it. No thanks

  103. Malkah Sorel says:

    Moishe Sachs Until 1957 Jews lived in Arab lands with relatively little violence compared to the Jews who lived in Europe. Noahides yes. Idolatory not included. And the wars being fought today, Iraq, Afganistan, Liyba, Nigeria everywhere the xtian country has its controlling hand. Because we are assimilated into the Western culture we are blind to the damage. Left and right we are in the middle. The cycle continues. Our business with Torah and Mitzvot and Am Israel.

  104. Moishe Sachs says:

    Mark Rigoglioso Christianity has hundreds of forms attempting to claim legitimacy. According to Judaism, none of them are valid & all of the claims made by all Christian groups from their beginnings have all been completely disputed. The book of Jonah shows that people are forgiven for sin by repenting, without need for sacrifices. There are two Jesuses in the New Testament. Take your pick. Was he the Mathew version where we see more of who he probably actually was, an observant Jewish patriot who could have been Moshiach, fighting the barbarian Romans on behalf of his people to re-establish the Jewish commonwealth? See Kosher Jesus, by Rabbi Shmuley Boteach. Or, was he the severely anti-semitic Jesus of Mark, Paul, Peter, John, Luke, & James, not to mention of Popes who led mass murder against defenseless Jews & Martin Luther who called Jewish houses of worship dens of thieves & devils, or something like that, & that they should (& were subsequently) burned down?
    Christians have been peddling Christianity for 1,700 years & can never succeed in converting the Jewish people because we were given Judaism with its explanations & interpretations in its entirety in our language, which you don't even know how to read. If you did, you'd see that EVERY claim made by Christianity about it being a fulfillment of Judaism is completely false, & easily shown thus.
    While you may find it good & fulfilling to believe in Christianity, & as long as it isn't mass-murdering Jews as it did a number of times in history, culminating in the almsot Holocaust, enjoy yourself. But, to knowledgeable Jews, your beliefs are the equivalent to a belief that there is a mother ship above the earth ready to take all Black people to Africa, as stated by Calypso Louis Farrakhan, the Christian anti-White, anti-Semite lover of Islamism.

  105. Moishe Sachs says:

    If true, WOW, what a stupid, suicidal Israeli govt. that permits itself to allow Israel to be harmed.

  106. Moishe Sachs says:

    Malkah Sorel There are many, many nice things in Chritianity, much, if not all of which, come from Judaism. For example, every verse in the nicest part of their book, the Sermon on the Mount, is from the Torah directly or from our sages from before & during that time. Rabbi Boteach in his new book Kosher Jesus sources each verse. So, to say that it's utter evil is incorrect. Some of it is, but some is simply not.

  107. Doris Wise Montrose says:

    No, Mary, not a single Jewish knee. The Jews are already perfect.

  108. Moishe Sachs says:

    Watts, this oldie but goodie, a Christian favorite, is a complete mistranslation of verse 25, which says it will be 7 weeks, not 69. The rest is also nonsense. See the book You Take Jesus, I'll Take God, pages 28-32 for a complete refutation of the lies you quote from your book that has some good in it but also has many lies. It also, btw, contains the famous verse by Jesus, "I have not come to bring peace on Earth, but the sword…" Sorry, that ONLY shows someone who could NOT have been moshiach, our righteous redeemer, who will actually come, hopefully today (or, at least today in Las Vegas, where it's still very much day).

  109. Moishe Sachs says:

    While I agree with how we should respond to someone offering us something we don't want, we are spiritually one entity, kenesses Yisroel, so what cuts away a part of us, easily duped Jews, hurts us viscerally & may very well harm creation by delaying our ability to fulfill our mission to make the world into a home for God, as it says in the medrosh.

  110. Ahron Ebert says:

    What is it about Christians and Muslims that they are unsure of their faith that they must get everyone to believe like them? In trying to convice us they are right they are try to convice themselves. We are sure of our knowledge (belief) and do not need to convince others.

  111. Moishe Sachs says:

    David Negley Any thinking, decent person knows emphatically without the slightest hesitation or question, that it's completely utterly impossible to be Torah observant & a Christian simultaneously regardless of your silly contention. It's exactly the same as holding onto something that makes one spiritually defiled while immersing in a mikvah, a ritual bath that cleanses one of impurity. You're just emulating, Paul, the biggest hypocrite in history, who said that he appears as a Jew to Jews but as a non-Jew to non-Jews. Messianics are truly unquestionably & totally confused. Any Jew who won't take the time to truly delve into the absolute refutations of Christianity, but takes the time to learn about it, is a very, very sad unfortunate case.

  112. Moishe Sachs says:

    To a knowledgeable Jew, that's like saying that one day every Christian will bow & acknowledge the Pillsbury Doe Boy as Lord, & as likely.

  113. Moishe Sachs says:

    Notice in the comments Christians comparing Israel to Islamist countries, Jews comparing modern Christians to contemporary genocidal Islamists. People! Neither of you is accurate, at all. And, for God's sake, we have far, far more in common than either has with Islamism. If you don't believe me, please show me among Christians or Jews the equivalent of http://www.thereligionofpeace.com !!!

  114. Doris Wise Montrose says:

    It is this kind of statement that puts a cloud over Israeli trust of Christian support for Israel. It is unfortunate b/c it is not true of all Christians who support Israel. Those are the ones who understand that Christianity came from Judaism.

  115. Bruce Killey says:

    Not much has changed since the Acts of the Apostles.

  116. Malkah Sorel says:

    it is islam that is wrong and it is xtiaity that is wrong, not the people. their religions are tools, of the people pick them up and use them to damage the world it is a problem.

  117. Malkah Sorel says:

    Moishe Sachs No it is like saying that when they leave the confines of this world and pass through the rectification they will realise that they were wrong. We will all realise something including you or I. They will just know that JC aint messiah and that G-d is one

  118. Anonymous says:

    Cara Nefertiti – copia lo scritto da tradurre ed incolla nel traduttore di Google – che troverai cercando nel browser.

  119. There is no need to prosetelize jews, Jesus will take care of that all by himself in an instant at the appointed hour on that day which he himself knows not until the father tells him to. One less thing to worry or argue about Amen?! Lets leave the jews alone they have their own covenant with gd. (until he tells them otherwise). Then I'm sure they will be ok with it.

  120. Doreen Kraatz says:

    a country that is putting its own pple down: no free thoughts, no free speech, no free religion. thats so pathetic "anti-missionary". this religion is just as wrong as the whole so called wanna-be-state of israel. when will america free those pple.

  121. Doreen Kraatz says:

    Florica Rudinescu yes christians were. these days its the jewish community in eastern arab who kill palestinians every single day, who let pple vanish into death camps or prisons. israelis are brainwashed. this alone shows how pathetic it is. i hope the rest of the world is stopping to to support

  122. Nefertiti Egitto…Questo articolo notizia sta dicendo che l'Organizzazione Kashrut ha voglia di fermare la Caffetteria cristiano di proprietà di cristiani, di distribuire i materiali evangelici al popolo ebraico israeliano.

  123. Janet Brown says:

    I had a missionary come to my door and when he saw my mezuzah immediately went into his spiel. When I tried to close my door he reached inside. As I was calling 911 I told him I had a gun and he would be pulling out a stump at the count of 3. He left but he still left his material. My alarm video captured it all and his material had the name of his organisation so I handed it all to the officer when he came. They are not all like this crazy person but 1 is too many

  124. When's something strang with your kashrute, who are you gonna call? TOVIA SINGER (ghost busters theme)

  125. What is soooo surprising, Moishe Sachs, is that most Jews here in the U.S. are democrats/vote for the democrats!

  126. Janet Brown, I am a Christian and I am firmly on the side of Israel – in word and deed. This man on your door is a DISGRACE and EMBARRASSMENT to non-Jews like me who love and support Israel against all odds and I want to apologize to you on his behalf even though I do not know him. If at all, as a Christian, I am told TO SHARE 'The Good News' with the world – and that's it. Shalom, B.

  127. Richard G Moss says:

    People kill our bodies missionaries kill our soul. Is it so wrong to oppose murderers?

  128. Richard G Moss says:

    You shall have no other gods before Me. Sound familiar. Feel free to worship as you want but keep it to yourself.

  129. Richard G Moss says:

    Kashrut is so much more than the food, if those preparing it do not have G-d central in their lives accepting His law as essential then who knows what else they will fudge on

  130. BennyLeon says:

    In south Africa we have an organisation called Jews for Jesus, which is celebrating 40 years of trying to convert Jews.  No amount of logic will convince them that their insidious teachings are hollow and false.  At one time the Kenneset  considered passing legislation forbiding their nefarious activities – what  happened to this legislation.

  131. SientjeSeinen says:

    tiborspitz  actually when one accepts Christ as the Messiah, G-d the father circumcizes our hearts, so that we come to know Him through Christ our Lord and saviour.

  132. SientjeSeinen says:

    tiborspitz  That is true what you say about Christ our Lord, but He came to call people to repentance, He did say that He did not come to abolish the laws but to fullfill them. therefore in Him we receive our salvation. shalom

  133. tiborspitz says:

    SientjeSeinen tiborspitz If Jesus circumcised your hearts, if he brought you to repentance,  if he
    did not come to abolish the Moses law,and if you followed his teachings,  YOU WOULD BECOME JEWISH AS HE WAS TO
    HIS LAST BREATH  quoting JewishPsalms murdered by enemies and adversaries  of Jewish people (his “crime”
    was INRI)!!! YOU ARE IDLE WORSHIPERS  praying toward an IMAGE of a human being and it
    happened to be a Jewish manand a historic personality.  I am flattered that you have chosen my BLOOD
    BROTHER  to be your god  and I am happy that you found through him your path to JEWISH SCRIPTURES.  JUDAISM 
    was religion of Jesus and he has never been a Christian.  NEVER.  I am sorry that you are NOT followers
    of Jesus. You are followers of pagan religion created by Roman Emperor Constantine for his Empire in 4th
    century. I am sorry but TRUTH  remains  TRUTH and no BELIEF can change it.  Neither number of believers in a false
    religion make it a right one. If Jesus returned to Earth he would pray in synagogues and never set his foot
    in a church.  Vatican would scare him the same way as Romans soldiers did in his lifetime when he was hiding
    from them and they detained and murdered him anyway.If Jesus circumcised your hearts, if he brought you to repentance,  if he
    did not come to abolish the Moses law,
    and if you followed his teachings,  YOU WOULD BECOME JEWISH AS HE WAS TO
    HIS LAST BREATH  quoting Jewish
    Psalms murdered by enemies and adversaries  of Jewish people (his “crime”
    was INRI)!!!
    YOU ARE IDLE WORSHIPERS  praying toward an IMAGE of a human being and it
    happened to be a Jewish man
    and a historic personality.  I am flattered that you have chosen my BLOOD
    BROTHER  to be your god  and I am
     happy that you found through him your path to JEWISH SCRIPTURES.  JUDAISM 
    was religion of Jesus and he
    has never been a Christian.  NEVER.  I am sorry that you are NOT followers
    of Jesus. You are followers of pagan
     religion created by Roman Emperor Constantine for his Empire in 4th
    century. I am sorry but TRUTH  remains
     TRUTH and no BELIEF can change it.  Neither number of believers in a false
    religion make it a right one. If
    Jesus returned to Earth he would pray in synagogues and never set his foot
    in a church.  Vatican would scare
     him the same way as Romans soldiers did in his lifetime when he was hiding
    from them and they detained
    and murdered him anyway.

  134. tiborspitz says:

    If Jesus circumcised your hearts, if he brought you to
    repentance,  if he did not come to abolish the Moses law,
    and if you followed his teachings,  YOU WOULD BECOME JEWISH
    AS HE WAS TO HIS LAST BREATH  quoting Jewish
    Psalms murdered by enemies and adversaries  of Jewish people
    (his “crime” was INRI)!!!
    YOU ARE IDLE WORSHIPERS  praying toward an IMAGE of a human
    being and it happened to be a Jewish man
    and a historic personality.  I am flattered that you have
    chosen my BLOOD BROTHER  to be your god  and I am
     happy that you found through him your path to JEWISH
    SCRIPTURES.  JUDAISM  was religion of Jesus and he
    has never been a Christian.  NEVER.  I am sorry
    that you are NOT followers of Jesus. You are followers of pagan
     religion created by Roman Emperor Constantine for his Empire
    in 4th century. I am sorry but TRUTH  remains
     TRUTH and no BELIEF can change it.  Neither number of
    believers in a false religion make it a right one. If
    Jesus returned to Earth he would pray in synagogues and never set
    his foot in a church.  Vatican would scare
     him the same way as Romans soldiers did in his lifetime
    when he was hiding from them and they detained
    and murdered him anyway.
    If Jesus circumcised your hearts, if he brought you to
    repentance,  if he did not come to abolish the Moses law,
    and if you followed his teachings,  YOU WOULD BECOME JEWISH
    AS HE WAS TO HIS LAST BREATH  quoting Jewish
    Psalms murdered by enemies and adversaries  of Jewish people
    (his “crime” was INRI)!!!
    YOU ARE IDLE WORSHIPERS  praying toward an IMAGE of a human
    being and it happened to be a Jewish man
    and a historic personality.  I am flattered that you have
    chosen my BLOOD BROTHER  to be your god  and I am
     happy that you found through him your path to JEWISH
    SCRIPTURES.  JUDAISM  was religion of Jesus and he
    has never been a Christian.  NEVER.  I am sorry
    that you are NOT followers of Jesus. You are followers of pagan
     religion created by Roman Emperor Constantine for his Empire
    in 4th century. I am sorry but TRUTH  remains
     TRUTH and no BELIEF can change it.  Neither number of
    believers in a false religion make it a right one. If
    Jesus returned to Earth he would pray in synagogues and never set
    his foot in a church.  Vatican would scare
     him the same way as Romans soldiers did in his lifetime
    when he was hiding from them and they detained
    and murdered him anyway.

  135. SientjeSeinen says:

    replytiborspitz   I know what you are saying and you are correct in that Christ does circumcizes our hearts, so that He cleanses our hearts from wicked deeds and thoughts, and makes the Lord G-d of Israel known to us. so in my heart, yes I believe in the Jewish G-d of Israel, as being the only true G-d who created heaven and earth, and Christ Jesus whom He sent, who is now our high priest, who pleads for us, with G-d the Father, and who forgives us our trespasses only for the sake of Christ who sealed the new covenant with His blood. “I will make a new covenant with my people, I will put my laws on their hearts and minds, and I will be their G-d and they shall be my people”  This has nothing to do with the vatican who still has Christ on the cross, He is no longer on the cross, He has risen and has overcome the World.   G-d’s love for Israel was manifested in Christ the Holy One of Isreal.   G-d bless shalom.

  136. SientjeSeinen says:

    pinspire  I am not trying to convert them rather Christ Jesus came to the House of Israel, not to the gentiles, but since they rejected Him, as it was prophesied in Isaiah, gentiles would be included in spiritual Israel. Through Christ we come to know the Lord God of Israel, so rather than converting Christ calls us to be part of Israel and the promises He made to them. As they are the natural branches and we are only grafted in through faith in Christ. shalom

  137. tiborspitz says:

    SientjeSeinen
    pinspire
    You are right but look at history:Originally, you WERE GRAFTED into the JEWISH TREE
    and its 4000 years old very deep ROOTS – since the first Jew Abraham.When the Roman Empire Christians split from
    the Jerusalem Jewish group (Jesus’ followers) and produced a NEW RELIGION, they
    REJECTED THE Jewish TREE and the Jewish ROOTS and proclaimed their grafted
    branch AS THE ONLY VALID PART OF THE TREE against the Jesus and his brother’s
    will and teachings.Jesus was Jewish and
    remained Jewish.His brother James
    continued the branch of JEWISH FOLLOWERS OF JESUS WHO ALL REMAINED JEWISH. They
    had to become Jewish = convert to Judaism before becoming “followers of Jesus”.I repeat, JESUS REMAINED JEWISH until his
    last breath and so did his brother James. Your beliefs and your religion are
    NOT OF JESUS but of Emperor Constantine who came few centuries later.Please read the Gospels – you will not find
    in it a single mention of any Christian holiday, because all are JEWISH. JESUS
    REMAINED JEWISH to his last breath and in every word he said – with some
    deviations much less important than this debate is. Jesus even
    warned his followers “not to cast pearls to the pigs” because they would not
    understand and would deform his teaching. You are a nice person but also a victim of
    this unfortunate twisting of truth by the Constantine followers and Vatican
    Church you dislike but blindly follow anyway. I am sorry.Go and read Gospels again but this time not
    only what they underlined for you in red.Then make a serious and honest decision TO EITHER FOLLOW JESUS AND
    BECOME JEWISH or follow Constantine and Vatican and reject the religion of
    Jesus and all HIS TEACHINGS.It is as
    simple as I am telling you and as I read and understood it so can you. BTW, in spite of many enemies and adversaries
    trying to “cancel or replace” the religion of Jesus, Judaism is ALIVE AND WELL.As predicted by Jewish Prophets according to
    GOD’s promise recorded in the Bible, Jews are back in their original country and
    are also doing exceptionally well.The “Jewish
    roots” are still there and the “tree above it” is as strong as ever.Even Vatican calls Jews “Our older brothers”
    and Pope comes to visit Israel in March.
    You are right but look at history:Originally, you WERE GRAFTED into the JEWISH TREE
    and its 4000 years old very deep ROOTS – since the first Jew Abraham.When the Roman Empire Christians split from
    the Jerusalem Jewish group (Jesus’ followers) and produced a NEW RELIGION, they
    REJECTED THE Jewish TREE and the Jewish ROOTS and proclaimed their grafted
    branch AS THE ONLY VALID PART OF THE TREE against the Jesus and his brother’s
    will and teachings.Jesus was Jewish and
    remained Jewish.His brother James
    continued the branch of JEWISH FOLLOWERS OF JESUS WHO ALL REMAINED JEWISH. They
    had to become Jewish = convert to Judaism before becoming “followers of Jesus”.I repeat, JESUS REMAINED JEWISH until his
    last breath and so did his brother James. Your beliefs and your religion are
    NOT OF JESUS but of Emperor Constantine who came few centuries later.Please read the Gospels – you will not find
    in it a single mention of any Christian holiday, because all are JEWISH. JESUS
    REMAINED JEWISH to his last breath and in every word he said – with some
    deviations much less important than this debate is. Jesus even
    warned his followers “not to cast pearls to the pigs” because they would not
    understand and would deform his teaching. You are a nice person but also a victim of
    this unfortunate twisting of truth by the Constantine followers and Vatican
    Church you dislike but blindly follow anyway. I am sorry.Go and read Gospels again but this time not
    only what they underlined for you in red.Then make a serious and honest decision TO EITHER FOLLOW JESUS AND
    BECOME JEWISH or follow Constantine and Vatican and reject the religion of
    Jesus and all HIS TEACHINGS.It is as
    simple as I am telling you and as I read and understood it so can you. BTW, in spite of many enemies and adversaries
    trying to “cancel or replace” the religion of Jesus, Judaism is ALIVE AND WELL.As predicted by Jewish Prophets according to
    GOD’s promise recorded in the Bible, Jews are back in their original country and
    are also doing exceptionally well.The “Jewish
    roots” are still there and the “tree above it” is as strong as ever.Even Vatican calls Jews “Our older brothers”
    and Pope comes to visit Israel in March.

  138. tiborspitz says:

    You are right but look at history:Originally, you WERE GRAFTED into the JEWISH TREE
    and its 4000 years old very deep ROOTS – since the first Jew Abraham.When the Roman Empire Christians split from
    the Jerusalem Jewish group (Jesus’ followers) and produced a NEW RELIGION, they
    REJECTED THE Jewish TREE and the Jewish ROOTS and proclaimed their grafted
    branch AS THE ONLY VALID PART OF THE TREE against the Jesus and his brother’s
    will and teachings.Jesus was Jewish and
    remained Jewish.His brother James
    continued the branch of JEWISH FOLLOWERS OF JESUS WHO ALL REMAINED JEWISH. They
    had to become Jewish = convert to Judaism before becoming “followers of Jesus”.I repeat, JESUS REMAINED JEWISH until his
    last breath and so did his brother James. Your beliefs and your religion are
    NOT OF JESUS but of Emperor Constantine who came few centuries later.Please read the Gospels – you will not find
    in it a single mention of any Christian holiday, because all are JEWISH. JESUS
    REMAINED JEWISH to his last breath and in every word he said – with some
    deviations much less important than this debate is. Jesus even
    warned his followers “not to cast pearls to the pigs” because they would not
    understand and would deform his teaching. You are a nice person but also a victim of
    this unfortunate twisting of truth by the Constantine followers and Vatican
    Church you dislike but blindly follow anyway. I am sorry.Go and read Gospels again but this time not
    only what they underlined for you in red.Then make a serious and honest decision TO EITHER FOLLOW JESUS AND
    BECOME JEWISH or follow Constantine and Vatican and reject the religion of
    Jesus and all HIS TEACHINGS.It is as
    simple as I am telling you and as I read and understood it so can you. BTW, in spite of many enemies and adversaries
    trying to “cancel or replace” the religion of Jesus, Judaism is ALIVE AND WELL.As predicted by Jewish Prophets according to
    GOD’s promise recorded in the Bible, Jews are back in their original country and
    are also doing exceptionally well.The “Jewish
    roots” are still there and the “tree above it” is as strong as ever.Even Vatican calls Jews “Our older brothers”
    and Pope comes to visit Israel in March.

  139. davidelijah777 says:

    tiborspitz Biblical Christianity is not a new religion but just Messianic Judaism. Messianic means “Christian” and therefore technically “Christianity” is simply part of Biblical “Yawism”. All this turmoil about “Conversion” is useless as the New Testament explains well that are the Gentiles who are aliens from the covenants of Israel… Conversion for a Gentile means being adopted by the God YHWH to be included in the Commonwealth of Israel  via the New Covenant of Jer.31:31. For a genuine Jew this New Covenant is only an updating in oder to write the Will of God in His heart… Yeshua is the WAY fro this updating and therefore the “Conversion” for a Jew means simply receiving His promised Messiah and not converting to a new religion.

  140. tiborspitz says:

    davidelijah777
    tiborspitz
    I did not come here to offend you but your paragraph belongs to
    the so-called “WORD twisting GYMNASTICS” and has no value whatsoever.What I mean it is all-nonsensical. Let me explain what I mean: We
    human beings live in organized societies.Within them, we have organized religious institutions. If you
    want to become a Catholic or a Protestant, a Christian clergy performs a ritual
    (baptism et.) bringing you into the membership where you are accepted. If you
    just say that Jesus, Mary, or Saint Peter MADE YOU A CATHOLIC, they would laugh
    you out of the parish or the church. Imagine that you are not circumcised, eat pork,
    worship idles, live and celebrate holidays as any other member of any religion
    (Muslim, Christian, Buddhist or Hindu etc) and do not know anything about Judaism
    and Jews.Then you just walk into a synagogue
    and proclaim that YHWH MADE YOU JEWISH – so you are Jewish and have all the
    obligations and rights as any religious Jewish person does.People might politely ask you from which
    mental institutions you have just escaped.Similar example: You just do not travel to French (or
    any other) border and claim to be French if you are not. They would not let you cross the border into
    their country without proper documents, visa or whatever is required. IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY.You do not become an American citizen by
    claiming that George Washington TALKED TO YOU and approved it. The American border officer would probably
    offer you a cold compress on your forehead.Btw, Jeremiah lived 600 years
    before Jesus time and that is why knew nothing about Christianity or some Christian
    Messiahs. He did not talk to Gentiles
    either.Your quote is a totally
    unrelated.It might be a surprise to you
    that NEITHER Jesus knew anything about Christianity, as it did not exist in his
    lifetime.The same outrageous statement
    you made about Yom Kippur and blood:When
    executer, JESUS DID NOT LOSE ANY BLOOD.He did not die bleeding to death so no BLOOD sacrifice APPLIES HERE. Roman crucifixion did not kill their victims
    by bleeding but by suffocation and exhaustion.Even the spear a Roman soldier drew into Jesus’ side did not cause bleeding;
    just some water came out, as dead people do not bleed. Another problem is that IN TIMES OF ABRAHAM
    GOD ALREADY STOP HUMAN SACRIFICES.To sacrifice
    a human being by the God of the Jews is a total malicious accusation. God has not cancelled his Bible, Emperor
    Constantine did.You live in his
    religion.Let God save your confused soul.
    Please read your Gospels before talking or writing.Thanks.
    I did not come here to offend you but your paragraph belongs to
    the so-called “WORD twisting GYMNASTICS” and has no value whatsoever.What I mean it is all-nonsensical. Let me explain what I mean: We
    human beings live in organized societies.Within them, we have organized religious institutions. If you
    want to become a Catholic or a Protestant, a Christian clergy performs a ritual
    (baptism et.) bringing you into the membership where you are accepted. If you
    just say that Jesus, Mary, or Saint Peter MADE YOU A CATHOLIC, they would laugh
    you out of the parish or the church. Imagine that you are not circumcised, eat pork,
    worship idles, live and celebrate holidays as any other member of any religion
    (Muslim, Christian, Buddhist or Hindu etc) and do not know anything about Judaism
    and Jews.Then you just walk into a synagogue
    and proclaim that YHWH MADE YOU JEWISH – so you are Jewish and have all the
    obligations and rights as any religious Jewish person does.People might politely ask you from which
    mental institutions you have just escaped.Similar example: You just do not travel to French (or
    any other) border and claim to be French if you are not. They would not let you cross the border into
    their country without proper documents, visa or whatever is required. IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY.You do not become an American citizen by
    claiming that George Washington TALKED TO YOU and approved it. The American border officer would probably
    offer you a cold compress on your forehead.Btw, Jeremiah lived 600 years
    before Jesus time and that is why knew nothing about Christianity or some Christian
    Messiahs. He did not talk to Gentiles
    either.Your quote is a totally
    unrelated.It might be a surprise to you
    that NEITHER Jesus knew anything about Christianity, as it did not exist in his
    lifetime.The same outrageous statement
    you made about Yom Kippur and blood:When
    executer, JESUS DID NOT LOSE ANY BLOOD.He did not die bleeding to death so no BLOOD sacrifice APPLIES HERE. Roman crucifixion did not kill their victims
    by bleeding but by suffocation and exhaustion.Even the spear a Roman soldier drew into Jesus’ side did not cause bleeding;
    just some water came out, as dead people do not bleed. Another problem is that IN TIMES OF ABRAHAM
    GOD ALREADY STOP HUMAN SACRIFICES.To sacrifice
    a human being by the God of the Jews is a total malicious accusation. God has not cancelled his Bible, Emperor
    Constantine did.You live in his
    religion.Let God save your confused soul.
    Please read your Gospels before talking or writing.Thanks.

  141. tiborspitz says:

    davidelijah777
    More explanations: IN TIMES OF ABRAHAM GOD ALREADY STOPPED HUMAN SACRIFICES. Jews obeyed and the others continued. To claim that God of the Jews killed an innocent person is a malicious accusation. GOD WOULD NEVER kill one innocent person to benefit some others who often do not even deserve it. Omnipotent GOD could just offer Salvation withoout killing anybody. One of the Commandments is, DO NOT MURDER. Do you really believe that God transgresses HIS OWN Commandments?
    God has not cancelled his Bible, Emperor Constantine tried to cancel Jewish Bible and in the minds of many confused human being he succeeded. Your beliefs follow Constantine’s pagan state religion of Roman Empire. Let God have mercy on your poisoned soul leading you to eternal damnation. Please read the Gospels and your Bible as it was written. If you read the WHOLE Bible, it might open your eyes too. Do not quote only what they underlined or printed FOR YOU in red; you sound as a recording rather than a person debating a subject.
    One more comment: One of the Commandments is not to ‘covet somebody else’s wife.’ GOD of the Bible (you call YHWH) WOULD NEVER MAKE PREGNANT A YOUNG GIRL ALREADY ENGAGED TO ANOTHER MAN. GOD never cancelled his own Commandments neither would transgress them.
    Christian theology insists that GOD OF THE JEWS (Creator of the Universe) is Jesus’ biological father while his mother remained a virgin. Your liturgy talks about GOD Father, his biological SON OF GOD Jesus and his mother MOTHER OF GOD. New Testament translated from Greek to Latin Isaiah’s word ‘YOUNG WOMAN’ (Hebrew Almah) to a ‘VIRGIN’ (in Hebrew ‘betulah’), intentionally inducing into the pregnant state of Mary the fraudulent expression ‘VIRGIN’. This FALSE & BIAS translation was made with criminal intentions to falsify the meaning of this crucial event with a significant impact to the entire Christian religion. Jesus had seven siblings, four brothers and three sisters. Best known is his brother James (Yakov). I know that you believe that your religion came straight from Heavens. I have to disappoint you, it DID NOT! Christian theologians in Bible translations already corrected this intentional mistake. However, 2.3 billion Christians did not notice it yet. Did you?
    More explanations: IN TIMES OF ABRAHAM GOD ALREADY STOPPED HUMAN SACRIFICES. Jews obeyed and the others continued. To claim that God of the Jews killed an innocent person is a malicious accusation. GOD WOULD NEVER kill one innocent person to benefit some others who often do not even deserve it. Omnipotent GOD could just offer Salvation withoout killing anybody. One of the Commandments is, DO NOT MURDER. Do you really believe that God transgresses HIS OWN Commandments?
    God has not cancelled his Bible, Emperor Constantine tried to cancel Jewish Bible and in the minds of many confused human being he succeeded. Your beliefs follow Constantine’s pagan state religion of Roman Empire. Let God have mercy on your poisoned soul leading you to eternal damnation. Please read the Gospels and your Bible as it was written. If you read the WHOLE Bible, it might open your eyes too. Do not quote only what they underlined or printed FOR YOU in red; you sound as a recording rather than a person debating a subject.
    One more comment: One of the Commandments is not to ‘covet somebody else’s wife.’ GOD of the Bible (you call YHWH) WOULD NEVER MAKE PREGNANT A YOUNG GIRL ALREADY ENGAGED TO ANOTHER MAN. GOD never cancelled his own Commandments neither would transgress them.
    Christian theology insists that GOD OF THE JEWS (Creator of the Universe) is Jesus’ biological father while his mother remained a virgin. Your liturgy talks about GOD Father, his biological SON OF GOD Jesus and his mother MOTHER OF GOD. New Testament translated from Greek to Latin Isaiah’s word ‘YOUNG WOMAN’ (Hebrew Almah) to a ‘VIRGIN’ (in Hebrew ‘betulah’), intentionally inducing into the pregnant state of Mary the fraudulent expression ‘VIRGIN’. This FALSE & BIAS translation was made with criminal intentions to falsify the meaning of this crucial event with a significant impact to the entire Christian religion. Jesus had seven siblings, four brothers and three sisters. Best known is his brother James (Yakov). I know that you believe that your religion came straight from Heavens. I have to disappoint you, it DID NOT! Christian theologians in Bible translations already corrected this intentional mistake. However, 2.3 billion Christians did not notice it yet. Did you?

  142. SientjeSeinen says:

    davidelijah777  I totally agree, that when the Jewish people turn to christ and believe upon Him, that He circumcizes their hearts as well as ours to keep the commandments, and then they would have the same faith as Abraham, who believed G-d and  it was counted to him as being righteous  and Yes Mary and Joseph had other children of their own. Mary was chosen because she was of the royal line of David a prophesy fullfilled. Christ chose the lowly womb to make His entrance into the Word.  as with G-d nothing is impossible. shalom and G-d bless.

  143. davidelijah777 says:

    tiborspitz
    I got your reply as follows but strangely it is not visible to all. I feel it is my duty to reply properly with dedication. I can’t do it now. You touched the foundational doctrines of Messianic Judaism (Biblical Christianity) and it will be vital to reply without going out of the context of this forum.
    Regards
    http://email.livefyre.com/wf/click?upn=oZtfHoAwEgZg8ZniQXSTq3WrT8Q55z9jY4VxbNTo3C78ID0GL-2F4H51-2Bs-2Fx5NYrCE2QJfp8mt69scJGfdZlQcSR0COtspQ-2Bw-2FIdwrjtJEgUYUVnuiwpDw-2B6r7pM-2FUCAbg-2Fa4hpqNu5nH0tb9Dslnn1gYyHj1GA-2Bau2kABLTGFR5pOd8Z0QR-2FpdnpK78RLwzyN4yZ1gd311IaMtWDkPjbSZg-3D-3D_N649iGojjMugIPQd46GNzU7PjnVe6qIfC61Y7Wpi0bCMtmB96HtUHUHWkRt4VqWvUvkl6eX0bU-2FSCUH6UmU9XG5Y1aW-2FZ6sh-2BFazDCRQNV4Iqr-2F-2FM8avHkKOHw-2BcxGh-2BIX346pVghwwiV4Xx-2F2AvY7vvBy7FlpsPTYce-2BqVxqnNYY5cPgJsQ1rQcMlpfzovZnI7EVCDPr0-2BkBPaK-2FmzqwA-3D-3D
    davidelijah777
    More explanations: IN TIMES OF ABRAHAM GOD ALREADY STOPPED HUMAN SACRIFICES. Jews obeyed and the others continued. To claim that God of the Jews killed an innocent person is a malicious accusation. GOD WOULD NEVER kill one innocent person to benefit some others who often do not even deserve it. Omnipotent GOD could just offer Salvation withoout killing anybody. One of the Commandments is, DO NOT MURDER. Do you really believe that God transgresses HIS OWN Commandments? 
    God has not cancelled his Bible, Emperor Constantine tried to cancel Jewish Bible and in the minds of many confused human being he succeeded. Your beliefs follow Constantine’s pagan state religion of Roman Empire. Let God have mercy on your poisoned soul leading you to eternal damnation. Please read the Gospels and your Bible as it was written. If you read the WHOLE Bible, it might open your eyes too. Do not quote only what they underlined or printed FOR YOU in red; you sound as a recording rather than a person debating a subject. 
    One more comment: One of the Commandments is not to ‘covet somebody else’s wife.’ GOD of the Bible (you call YHWH) WOULD NEVER MAKE PREGNANT A YOUNG GIRL ALREADY ENGAGED TO ANOTHER MAN. GOD never cancelled his own Commandments neither would transgress them. 
    Christian theology insists that GOD OF THE JEWS (Creator of the Universe) is Jesus’ biological father while his mother remained a virgin. Your liturgy talks about GOD Father, his biological SON OF GOD Jesus and his mother MOTHER OF GOD. New Testament translated from Greek to Latin Isaiah’s word ‘YOUNG WOMAN’ (Hebrew Almah) to a ‘VIRGIN’ (in Hebrew ‘betulah’), intentionally inducing into the pregnant state of Mary the fraudulent expression ‘VIRGIN’. This FALSE & BIAS translation was made with criminal intentions to falsify the meaning of this crucial event with a significant impact to the entire Christian religion. Jesus had seven siblings, four brothers and three sisters. Best known is his brother James (Yakov). I know that you believe that your religion came straight from Heavens. I have to disappoint you, it DID NOT! Christian theologians in Bible translations already corrected this intentional mistake. However, 2.3 billion Christians did not notice it yet. Did you? 
    More explanations: IN TIMES OF ABRAHAM GOD ALREADY STOPPED HUMAN SACRIFICES. Jews obeyed and the others continued. To claim that God of the Jews killed an innocent person is a malicious accusation. GOD WOULD NEVER kill one innocent person to benefit some others who often do not even deserve it. Omnipotent GOD could just offer Salvation withoout killing anybody. One of the Commandments is, DO NOT MURDER. Do you really believe that God transgresses HIS OWN Commandments? 
    God has not cancelled his Bible, Emperor Constantine tried to cancel Jewish Bible and in the minds of many confused human being he succeeded. Your beliefs follow Constantine’s pagan state religion of Roman Empire. Let God have mercy on your poisoned soul leading you to eternal damnation. Please read the Gospels and your Bible as it was written. If you read the WHOLE Bible, it might open your eyes too. Do not quote only what they underlined or printed FOR YOU in red; you sound as a recording rather than a person debating a subject. 
    One more comment: One of the Commandments is not to ‘covet somebody else’s wife.’ GOD of the Bible (you call YHWH) WOULD NEVER MAKE PREGNANT A YOUNG GIRL ALREADY ENGAGED TO ANOTHER MAN. GOD never cancelled his own Commandments neither would transgress them. 
    Christian theology insists that GOD OF THE JEWS (Creator of the Universe) is Jesus’ biological father while his mother remained a virgin. Your liturgy talks about GOD Father, his biological SON OF GOD Jesus and his mother MOTHER OF GOD. New Testament translated from Greek to Latin Isaiah’s word ‘YOUNG WOMAN’ (Hebrew Almah) to a ‘VIRGIN’ (in Hebrew ‘betulah’), intentionally inducing into the pregnant state of Mary the fraudulent expression ‘VIRGIN’. This FALSE & BIAS translation was made with criminal intentions to falsify the meaning of this crucial event with a significant impact to the entire Christian religion. Jesus had seven siblings, four brothers and three sisters. Best known is his brother James (Yakov). I know that you believe that your religion came straight from Heavens. I have to disappoint you, it DID NOT! Christian theologians in Bible translations already corrected this intentional mistake. However, 2.3 billion Christians did not notice it yet. Did you?

  144. davidelijah777 says:

    SientjeSeinen davidelijah777 Dear Siencje – of course we agree. I however believe that a true Jew is the same faith of Abraham. The issue is that this faith should lead to the New Covenant in order to reach the intention of God in His Eternal Plan of regenerating a Human Stock for the purpose of introducing them in His own Divine Substance.  We call this entity “The Bride of Christ” which of course is the “New Covenant” consequence of the “Bride of YHWH” -Israel.
    The two are related of course and in spite the apparent distinction the Godhead is the same One. This is an essential point were mainstream Judaism gets stuck.

  145. davidelijah777 says:

    pinspire This is not Freedom. Everybody should be allowed to explore and choose. Anyway “Christianity” is not a new religion from a biblical perspective. Freedom cannot be one way and only in the West. The West cannot stand any longer double standards without Interfaith+Human Rights Reciprocity. This of course applies primarily to Islam = re-directing their masses of refugees and plotting to implement Sharia in the West. Jews can open all their coffee shops and synagogues + banks and business of course & alike… without restrictions… Why Israel should not reciprocate and store theocracy for the theocratic?

  146. davidelijah777 says:

    truthseekr  Lack of tolerance is a fast infectious disease.
    If you justify it it will come back to you in cycle. Instead the solution is the immune system of Truth. If your truth can’t stand then you are weaker then the heresy you do not tolerate. Freedom is the vehicle of truth and it operates in the way of Light. If you cover the Light you and your truth are darkness.This is also the reason why all those who enjoy the Western freedom without reciprocity are in the best scenario the most successful bunch of losers.

  147. SientjeSeinen says:

    pinspire  we are not disrespectfull towards the Jewish religion rather we acknowledge that G-d chose Israel, to be His people.  We still abide by the ten commandments acknowledge all the prophets, only we give thanks to the Lord G-d of Israel for sending His Son Christ Jesus to make the G-d of Isreal known to us, so that we can also share in the blessing which were given to Israel and its people. As the Lord G-d delivered the Israelites out of bondage of slavery, so Christ delivers us from being in bondage to sin.  As Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness for the healing of the people, so Christ was lifted up to heal us and receive forgiveness of our transgressions, not for anything good we have done, but only for the sake of Christ the Son of the Living G-d.  shalom

  148. SientjeSeinen says:

    @Shemaya Shiloh  you could not have been a true christian as Christ makes the Lord G-d of Israel known to us who were gentiles but now are circumcized in our hearts, to give praise and glory to the Lord G-d of Israel.  Blessed be His Holy Name.  shalom

  149. SientjeSeinen says:

    @Shemaya Shiloh  but you see Christ has put a love for Israel into our hearts, though I dont believe the church has replaced Israel, as some people believe. Because the Prophesy of retuning the Jews to their own land, is coming true today.  So G-d bless shalom

  150. SientjeSeinen says:

    @Andrew Hurwitz   I beg your pardon you should study the Psalm 41 verse 9, the betrayal of Judas concerning Christ and also Zechariah 12 verses 9-10  shalom

  151. SientjeSeinen says:

    @Frank Bright  lol I agree, arent rabbis greatly respected in Israel?

  152. tiborspitz says:

    SientjeSeinen
    pinspire
    Let me cover just few points:
    1. Jewish belief that ONE OF THEM (Yehoshuah ben
    Yosef from Natzeret) IS THEIR GOD would bring them closer to the Abrahamic
    faith IS THE MOST OUTRAGEOUS LIE.Ito the
    contrary – it would push the Jews 4000
    years back to pre-Abrahamic pagan cultures where worshipping images of human beings was common.
    2. Christian theology puts ALL emphasis
    on the SON and simultaneously pushes aside FATHER – the Creator of the
    Universe.
    3.When Isaiah was talking about “circumcision of the heart”, HE DID NOT
    CANCEL THE ORIGINAL Abrahamic CIRCUMCISION as Christians did.
    4.A Jew who gave up his Judaism (as you are suggesting) would open his heart
    to idolatry and his soul would bleed to death.
    5.3300 years ago, a leader Moses led Israelites out of slavery in Egypt and
    when they settled in their own country, they OUTLAWED SLAVERY.Christianity practiced slavery and serfdom
    for almost total length of their existence.
    6.You have conveniently forgotten thatJESUS WAS CIRCUMCISED, lived all his life as a Jew in a Jewish country
    and New Testament Gospels recorded him saying, that “NOT A SINGLE IOTA OF THE
    MOSES LAW SHOULD BE ABOLISHED”.The main
    designer of Christianity Saul from Tarsus (also called St. Paul) ABOLISHED
    MOSES LAW and allowed worshipping graven images, eat pork and cancelled circumcision.

    7.Christian religion kept only 5 (Five) Commandments and cancelled the other
    five.Allowed were more than ONE GOD, worshipping
    people, objects and images, work on Shabbat etc. This is not the way to “join Abrahamic
    religion”.
    8. The two Gospels recorded two
    conflicting GENEALOGIES OF JESUS, both ending up with the last name on the
    list:JOSEPH HUSBAND OF MARY.New Testament insists that biological FATHER
    OF JESUS was not Joseph but GOD (YHWH).Because God did not descend from Davidic dynasty, your argument is a
    blatant lie.
    9. I agree, “With GOD nothing is impossible”.However, Jews do not believe that their GOD
    is breaking down His own Commandments and runs around like Zeus and Apollo
    (Greek and Roman gods) who make younggirls pregnant and make them demi-gods (called Sons of gods).
    New Testament was written in Greek = in the same culture.
    10.My answers do not aim at insulting or downgrading your faith.You have the right to believe whatever you
    want.This is just a subtle reminder
    that you should leave Jews alone.We
    were already 2000 years old at the birth of Christianity and it happened in present
    territory of Israel.
    11.As somebody already suggested, instead of trying to convert Jews, we both should stand shoulder to shoulder
    against Islamic extremism that already killed hundreds of thousands Christians,
    burned Christian churches and turned millions of Christians into refugees.
    Let me cover just few points:
    1. Jewish belief that ONE OF THEM (Yehoshuah ben
    Yosef from Natzeret) IS THEIR GOD would bring them closer to the Abrahamic
    faith IS THE MOST OUTRAGEOUS LIE.Ito the
    contrary – it would push the Jews 4000
    years back to pre-Abrahamic pagan cultures where worshipping images of human beings was common.
    2. Christian theology puts ALL emphasis
    on the SON and simultaneously pushes aside FATHER – the Creator of the
    Universe.
    3.When Isaiah was talking about “circumcision of the heart”, HE DID NOT
    CANCEL THE ORIGINAL Abrahamic CIRCUMCISION as Christians did.
    4.A Jew who gave up his Judaism (as you are suggesting) would open his heart
    to idolatry and his soul would bleed to death.
    5.3300 years ago, a leader Moses led Israelites out of slavery in Egypt and
    when they settled in their own country, they OUTLAWED SLAVERY.Christianity practiced slavery and serfdom
    for almost total length of their existence.
    6.You have conveniently forgotten thatJESUS WAS CIRCUMCISED, lived all his life as a Jew in a Jewish country
    and New Testament Gospels recorded him saying, that “NOT A SINGLE IOTA OF THE
    MOSES LAW SHOULD BE ABOLISHED”.The main
    designer of Christianity Saul from Tarsus (also called St. Paul) ABOLISHED
    MOSES LAW and allowed worshipping graven images, eat pork and cancelled circumcision.

    7.Christian religion kept only 5 (Five) Commandments and cancelled the other
    five.Allowed were more than ONE GOD, worshipping
    people, objects and images, work on Shabbat etc. This is not the way to “join Abrahamic
    religion”.
    8. The two Gospels recorded two
    conflicting GENEALOGIES OF JESUS, both ending up with the last name on the
    list:JOSEPH HUSBAND OF MARY.New Testament insists that biological FATHER
    OF JESUS was not Joseph but GOD (YHWH).Because God did not descend from Davidic dynasty, your argument is a
    blatant lie.
    9. I agree, “With GOD nothing is impossible”.However, Jews do not believe that their GOD
    is breaking down His own Commandments and runs around like Zeus and Apollo
    (Greek and Roman gods) who make younggirls pregnant and make them demi-gods (called Sons of gods).
    New Testament was written in Greek = in the same culture.
    10.My answers do not aim at insulting or downgrading your faith.You have the right to believe whatever you
    want.This is just a subtle reminder
    that you should leave Jews alone.We
    were already 2000 years old at the birth of Christianity and it happened in present
    territory of Israel.
    11.As somebody already suggested, instead of trying to convert Jews, we both should stand shoulder to shoulder
    against Islamic extremism that already killed hundreds of thousands Christians,
    burned Christian churches and turned millions of Christians into refugees.

  153. aryehsax says:

    davidelijah777 tiborspitz I think you need a sit down with Rabbi Johnathan Sacks so you can understand Torah

  154. tiborspitz says:

    aryehsax davidelijah777 tiborspitz Torah is written in a clear language and easy to understand if READ AS WRITTEN.  I do not need an “interpreter” who promotes idolatry. If Messiah had already arrived how come in the last century alone 100 million people were killed in wars?  90% of them Christians, six million Jews, murdered by people who were born Christians and believed in Christian Messiah. You must be kidding. Missionaries with the objective to convert Jews and complete the Holocaust are not very good interpreters of Jewish Torah, who is against the teaching of Abraham, Moses and the Jew Jesus cannot be a good advisor and I would not trust him with a single slice of bread, because who lies is also a thief ……

  155. SientjeSeinen says:

    tiborspitz aryehsax davidelijah777  people arent born christians,  a christian family can have a child baptized in the christian faith, but that does not necessarily make him/her a christian at heart. As a christian still has to male a professton of faith at the age of 12-14 to profess Christ as Lord and saviour, equal to your bar Mitzah (sp)  Hitler was a roman catholic which church does practice a lot of idolatry by having statues, and venerating Mary. shalom.

  156. aryehsax says:

    tiborspitz aryehsax davidelijah777 The Jew Jesus, was not in the Torah ,the law. Although he did say his mission was to uphold it not to change it. The Torah, all 5 books, teach us the law and it is said it must be upheld throughout our generation, that is forever.

  157. tiborspitz says:

    SientjeSeinen tiborspitz aryehsax davidelijah777 Jewish translation of the first and second Commandment defines WHAT IS IDOLATRY. (WARNING:  Catechism available to you modified it). TO WARSHIP A HUMAN BEING and a  KNOWN HISTORIC PERSONALITY AS GOD IS IDOLATRY. I am sorry, I just quote the Bible you say you respect …

  158. SientjeSeinen says:

    @tiborspitz   But we dont worship Christ as being the Lord G-d of Israel, we give thanks and praise to the Lord G-d of Israel for sending His Son, (the Word made flesh) to redeem us from our sinfull ways, and by whom we receive forgiveness when we approach the throne of the Lord G-d in the name of Christ, our faithfull High Priest who stands in the breach for us, as once Moses stood in the breach for the israelites. otherwise, the Jews would also be guilty of idolatry if they worshipped Moses who  lead them out slavery while being slaves in Egypt.

  159. tiborspitz says:

    SientjeSeinen
    You said it:The difference
    between Christians and Jews is that they did not DEIFY (turned into Lord god) Abraham,
    Jacob or Moses, Prophets, king David and Salomon and many sages – regardless of
    their contribution to creating or preserving Jewish people. Jews NEVER turned their prayers toward a HUMAN
    BEING as Christians do. Since Christianity established as a separate religion,
    IDOLATRY became one of its features. You belong to that organized religion even if
    you wished they had committed fewer crimes “in the name of Christianity” and that
    you would have never participated in them.All you can do is to repent, ask for forgiveness, apologize or separate
    yourself from that organization or movement.GOD in the first two Commandments clearly defined what IDOLATRY is. Turning
    your prayers toward a deified human being IS idolatry, regardless if it is done
    in your mind or in front of a plaster statue. I
    repeat:JESUS WAS JEWISH AND HE PRAYED
    TO ONE AND ONLY GOD OF THE JEWS. He
    repeated that, “NOT A SINGLE IOTA OF THE LAW SHOULD BE ABOLISHED”.Therefore, he made all the TEN COMMANDMENTS valid
    for all his followers for the Eternity. If you were an honest person and you
    wanted to remain a JESUS FOLLOWER you have one single alternative:FOLLOWERS OF JESUS must become JEWISH. If you
    want to remain follower of Constantine and/or a hypocrite (and a dishonest
    missionary) is your personal choice.I
    am sorry but you cannot have both.
    You said it:The difference
    between Christians and Jews is that they did not DEIFY (turned into Lord god) Abraham,
    Jacob or Moses, Prophets, king David and Salomon and many sages – regardless of
    their contribution to creating or preserving Jewish people. Jews NEVER turned their prayers toward a HUMAN
    BEING as Christians do. Since Christianity established as a separate religion,
    IDOLATRY became one of its features. You belong to that organized religion even if
    you wished they had committed fewer crimes “in the name of Christianity” and that
    you would have never participated in them.All you can do is to repent, ask for forgiveness, apologize or separate
    yourself from that organization or movement.GOD in the first two Commandments clearly defined what IDOLATRY is. Turning
    your prayers toward a deified human being IS idolatry, regardless if it is done
    in your mind or in front of a plaster statue. I
    repeat:JESUS WAS JEWISH AND HE PRAYED
    TO ONE AND ONLY GOD OF THE JEWS. He
    repeated that, “NOT A SINGLE IOTA OF THE LAW SHOULD BE ABOLISHED”.Therefore, he made all the TEN COMMANDMENTS valid
    for all his followers for the Eternity. If you were an honest person and you
    wanted to remain a JESUS FOLLOWER you have one single alternative:FOLLOWERS OF JESUS must become JEWISH. If you
    want to remain follower of Constantine and/or a hypocrite (and a dishonest
    missionary) is your personal choice.I
    am sorry but you cannot have both.

  160. aryehsax says:

    tiborspitz SientjeSeinen This is not limited to the ten commandments but all 613 found it the Torah all are valid, they cover what we eat, how we treat others, marriage, what we wear, virtually every phase of life an death, no exceptions sometimes no expiation just the law to follow. All this forever, through out our generations.

  161. SientjeSeinen says:

    aryehsax   I realize that the Jews were chosen to be a light to other nations, and were given dietary laws, laws regarding treating others, laws for modesty, and many other laws which I really like. and which we gentiles could learn from.  But Paul also speaks to  us, of how to treat others and if say we know our brother is an alcoholic, we are not to give him alcohol if it gaves him occassion to stumble. We are also told not to curse or disrespect our parents, parents arent allowed to provoke children to anger, and to be modest in all things. not to curse or swear.so you see we are not only bound by the ten commandments but have certain duties as a christian also.  We are bound by to love the Lord our G-d with all our heart mind and soul, and our neighbour as ourselves.  we celebrate Christ resurrection in our hearts, and are thankful to the Lord G-d for His love which was manifested in Christ.  We celebrate Christmas, the birth of Christ, though the stores have made it into a commercial thing.    But really Christ should live in our hearts every day of the year, I guess we need the reminder of Christmas to remember what Christ has done for us.  shalom and G-d bless.

  162. davidelijah777 says:

    aryehsax davidelijah777 tiborspitz I never neglected the chance to listen to rabbis but I will not follow Rabbi Akiva who exposed the Jewish believers in Yeshua compelling them to support Bar Kochba in the war against the Romans. Persecution and confiscation against Messianic Jews was not wise.

  163. aryehsax says:

    davidelijah777 aryehsax tiborspitz You make reference to Rabbi Akiva who died on the combs having his flesh removed rather then denouncing his faith. Not every one in the Talmud agreed with him. On the other hand we could make argument about not following some Christian religious leaders Pope Paul lV, Pius lV, Pius llV (who rebuilt the ghetto after Napoleon  freed it) Martin Luther a Nazi favorite (The Jews and Their  Lies), Father Charles Coughlin of Radio Fame. This is senseless to point fingers at Jewish anti messianic actions verses Christan antisemitism.

  164. davidelijah777 says:

    aryehsax davidelijah777 tiborspitz I do not doubt the heroism of Rabbi Akiva but his “rabbinical” pick of Bar Kochba as Messiah indicates that correct exegesis is not just matter of Biblical Philology and Judaica. Rabbi Akiva disgraced the memory of Yeshua and the rich existence of the Messianic community.
    When “The Way” penetrated the Roma Empire a new struggle took place and especially the Jewish component of the Messianic Church had to suffer a new fierce persecution. The result was a lesser version of the Church of Jerusalem but it  started a new trend in the West. Shabbat as a consequence was also changed in to Sunday…
    Israel today has got the great chance to embrace a vital and ancient part of his own spiritual history and make it again its own for the “rainy time to come”. 
    Israel is not adequately aware of the future struggle to come but the Jewish Messianic Spiritual Intelligentsia is…
    The thought of YHWH for Israel are much higher than Israel Herself. 
    My advise to Israel is embracing in love the Messianic Community and change in wealth and richness what many Jews think it is a threat. 
    Such spiritual unity is a reality in the heavenly realm and therefore it will lead to the vital destination God has already determined in His Will. Whoever will oppose it – I believe – will suffer the damage.

  165. tiborspitz says:

    SientjeSeinen
    I hope that you are aware that Paul (Soul from Tarsus) was ALSO
    Jewish as was Jesus.He was not from the
    Province of Judea but a Roman citizen from Tarsus. (That is why Romans did not
    crucify him but they “humanely” beheaded him). He set
    the rules for new influx of pagan believers and ADJUSTED requirements for admitting
    them into the NEW RELIGION.It made it easier
    for them to break almost all rules of Judaism considering keeping Commandments,
    circumcision, Day of rest, food, rituals, using idles (pagan sculptures) of
    their new god and his mother etc..Many
    just switched god Mithra for Jesus without making too many additional adjustments.
    Paul never met Jesus but ideologically they were adversaries.JESUS WAS A RELIGIOUS JEW WHO DID NOT GIVE UP
    JUDAISM. He was even stricter than his Jewish contemporaries that brought him
    into conflict with fellow Pharisees. He went as far as considering “improper thinking”
    being a sin already.Naturally, this was
    impossible to enforce. After Jesus’ execution
    and death, his brother Jacob-James followed his line. However, Paul won in
    competition and produced a New Religion with many pagan elements in it.It increased the membership but also
    gradually not only removed Judaism from Christianity but became hostile toward
    Jews. This trend lasted for almost two
    millennia and culminated with Holocaust. Adolf Hitler’s favorite author whom he quoted frequently
    was a vicious anti-Semite Martin Luther. In spite of your “best intention” and
    praising the Lord (who was Jewish to the core), this situation developed because
    of “compromise” unfortunately you yourself take part in today as we speak. Please look up closely what you are doing and
    return to the religion of Jesus.I will give
    you one more incentive:According to Christian
    theology and Gospels, Jesus died as a JEW talking to other executed about “meeting
    in Paradise” = Jewish Heaven. Even the
    Creed says that after his death he descended to Hades (Greek Hell) and then headed
    toward the Jewish Heavens where he resides and where God of the Jews is present.
    Jesus is NOT in the Christian Heaven where all good Christian souls hope to
    meet him. I am sorry, no such luck. If
    you want to meet Jesus after YOU died, you know where to find him and how to
    get there.
    I hope that you are aware that Paul (Soul from Tarsus) was ALSO
    Jewish as was Jesus.He was not from the
    Province of Judea but a Roman citizen from Tarsus. (That is why Romans did not
    crucify him but they “humanely” beheaded him). He set
    the rules for new influx of pagan believers and ADJUSTED requirements for admitting
    them into the NEW RELIGION.It made it easier
    for them to break almost all rules of Judaism considering keeping Commandments,
    circumcision, Day of rest, food, rituals, using idles (pagan sculptures) of
    their new god and his mother etc..Many
    just switched god Mithra for Jesus without making too many additional adjustments.
    Paul never met Jesus but ideologically they were adversaries.JESUS WAS A RELIGIOUS JEW WHO DID NOT GIVE UP
    JUDAISM. He was even stricter than his Jewish contemporaries that brought him
    into conflict with fellow Pharisees. He went as far as considering “improper thinking”
    being a sin already.Naturally, this was
    impossible to enforce. After Jesus’ execution
    and death, his brother Jacob-James followed his line. However, Paul won in
    competition and produced a New Religion with many pagan elements in it.It increased the membership but also
    gradually not only removed Judaism from Christianity but became hostile toward
    Jews. This trend lasted for almost two
    millennia and culminated with Holocaust. Adolf Hitler’s favorite author whom he quoted frequently
    was a vicious anti-Semite Martin Luther. In spite of your “best intention” and
    praising the Lord (who was Jewish to the core), this situation developed because
    of “compromise” unfortunately you yourself take part in today as we speak. Please look up closely what you are doing and
    return to the religion of Jesus.I will give
    you one more incentive:According to Christian
    theology and Gospels, Jesus died as a JEW talking to other executed about “meeting
    in Paradise” = Jewish Heaven. Even the
    Creed says that after his death he descended to Hades (Greek Hell) and then headed
    toward the Jewish Heavens where he resides and where God of the Jews is present.
    Jesus is NOT in the Christian Heaven where all good Christian souls hope to
    meet him. I am sorry, no such luck. If
    you want to meet Jesus after YOU died, you know where to find him and how to
    get there.

  166. aryehsax says:

    davidelijah777 aryehsax tiborspitzRabbi Akiva “rabbinical” pick of Bar Kochba as Messiah is the same mistake taken by Paul picking Jesus as the Messiah. Christianity including the Messianic Community is based solely on Paul’s revelation. However the Jewish faith is based on Torah, received by Moses and also buy the multitudes from the voice of G-d himself at the base of  the  mount.   Remove Paul and no Christianity would have existed. Naturally no Christian can agree nor a Jew disagree. Messianic’s are one of many forms of a Christian faith, only with Jewish trappings.

  167. tiborspitz says:

    aryehsax
    davidelijah777
     tiborspitz
    This exercise is called, “forecasting the past”. I agree that
    without Paul there would be no Christianity.He was a marketing genius, but picking for the position of Messiah a humble
    Jewish healer and a preacher tremendously complicated his transition to become KING
    of KINGS.Jesus never held any political
    office and sincerely hated the ‘rich and powerful’. That is why it took about
    300 years until irony of history made him head of new STATE RELIGION OF PAGAN ROMAN
    EMPIRE and his name finally appeared as equal to Emperor Constantine. However, this Messiah had a completely different
    function, purpose and nature:Head of
    the Church became the servant and facilitator of the “rich and powerful” SLAVE
    MASTERS and heirs of the Roma Empire. If
    still alive, Jesus would have been disgusted and would violently disagree to
    such a grotesque “promotion”. The same
    funny debate about “a mistake Jews made” by the Rabbi Akiva choice of a brilliant
    strategist and a heroic military leader Bar Kochba to liberate Jews from the
    Roman brutal yoke they suffered under since the time Roman Legions destroyed Jerusalem
    in the Year 70. CE . Obviously, Jesus disappointed the Jews by
    letting the Pagan Roman Empire in charge of the world for several centuries
    during which they murdered hundreds of thousands “rebels” as well as Jesus’
    followers. Among them were multitudes of Christians thrown into arenas to be
    devoured by lions and other wild beasts in public entertaining spectacles. It surely did not encourage the believers. We can conclude that without a pragmatic decision
    of Roman Emperor Constantine (around the years 320 – 230) who needed a religion
    that would UNITE about a thousand cults on his acquired and ruled territories, Christianity
    in the present deformed and pagan infected form would have not taken over either.
    What has God’s will to do with all this development? God gave us free will and a
    choice.This is a great example how we humans
    can mess it up.Not a very fluttering
    picture but we are learning…
    This exercise is called, “forecasting the past”. I agree that
    without Paul there would be no Christianity.He was a marketing genius, but picking for the position of Messiah a humble
    Jewish healer and a preacher tremendously complicated his transition to become KING
    of KINGS.Jesus never held any political
    office and sincerely hated the ‘rich and powerful’. That is why it took about
    300 years until irony of history made him head of new STATE RELIGION OF PAGAN ROMAN
    EMPIRE and his name finally appeared as equal to Emperor Constantine. However, this Messiah had a completely different
    function, purpose and nature:Head of
    the Church became the servant and facilitator of the “rich and powerful” SLAVE
    MASTERS and heirs of the Roma Empire. If
    still alive, Jesus would have been disgusted and would violently disagree to
    such a grotesque “promotion”. The same
    funny debate about “a mistake Jews made” by the Rabbi Akiva choice of a brilliant
    strategist and a heroic military leader Bar Kochba to liberate Jews from the
    Roman brutal yoke they suffered under since the time Roman Legions destroyed Jerusalem
    in the Year 70. CE . Obviously, Jesus disappointed the Jews by
    letting the Pagan Roman Empire in charge of the world for several centuries
    during which they murdered hundreds of thousands “rebels” as well as Jesus’
    followers. Among them were multitudes of Christians thrown into arenas to be
    devoured by lions and other wild beasts in public entertaining spectacles. It surely did not encourage the believers. We can conclude that without a pragmatic decision
    of Roman Emperor Constantine (around the years 320 – 230) who needed a religion
    that would UNITE about a thousand cults on his acquired and ruled territories, Christianity
    in the present deformed and pagan infected form would have not taken over either.
    What has God’s will to do with all this development? God gave us free will and a
    choice.This is a great example how we humans
    can mess it up.Not a very fluttering
    picture but we are learning…

  168. aryehsax says:

    tiborspitz aryehsax davidelijah777 Jesus was unable to meet the requirements of the Jewish Messiah Ben David, only Paul alone whose, experience on a road lead him to believe Jesus was the Messiah. Like the virgin birth, more like a Roman or Greek thing when Gods created half Gods or in some cases other Gods  by fertilizing Human women. Jewish teachings lwt us know that the Messiah en David must come from David the anointed one’s seed. We must rely on these teaching for if they are false, it would be like a building whos foundation gives away all falls down, nothing to build on.

  169. tiborspitz says:

    aryehsax tiborspitz davidelijah777 Chritian theology messed it up by claiming that GOD OF THE JEWS was biological father of Jesus.  As GOD was not from Davidic ancestry, neither was Jesus.  Perhaps his legitimate father Joseph was but they disqualified him …so the bubble burst …

  170. tiborspitz says:

    aryehsax tiborspitz davidelijah777 Judaism does not depend on Messiah as we are still waiting for him. Christianity has been many times DISQUALIFIED  but people need those empty promises of some hope that there is LIFE beyond death and whoever promises it they go for it. It does not matter it makes sense or not …and if mistakes do not blame the person but DEVIL MADE ME DO IT excuses the sinner, the sweet lie tastes even better  … I call it good marketing but no delivery of goods.

  171. aryehsax says:

    tiborspitz aryehsax davidelijah777I agree in the deep down base of Christianity everyone who excepts Jesus as their savior will go to heaven. For in his heart Adolph Hitler accepted him just before he pulled the trigger  he would wind up in the heaven of the Christians.  How would he be received? Well anyway we are way off base of the discussion of Kashrut certification for the cafe

  172. SientjeSeinen says:

    @tiborspitz  but mary was a  prophesy fullfilled as she was of the royal line of David, Christ was not born but begotten by the Holy spirit and God was His heavenly Father, Joseph had nothing to do with it, except that Joseph was betrothed to Mary, but was told not to put her away from him, as Christ had chosen the lowly womb to make His entry into this world.  He is “Word made flesh”  St. John gospel chapter one.  Isaiah 7 verse 14 “Behold the Lord Himself shall give you a sign behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son and call His Name Immanuel.”  and the government shall be on His shoulders.  Also Isaiah 53 tells us of Christ’s suffering and “He bore the iniquities of us all.”  and whoever shall make Him a guilt offering for sin, shall prolong his days.”  Here Isaiah in 3 chapter one, tells us about Christ how He was rejected and despised by man.  shalom

  173. SientjeSeinen says:

    aryehsax  Actually not necessarily so as the Word spoken by Christ is “that no one can come unto the Father unless the Father draws him.”Would that not mean that the Lord G-d would have mercy upon that person and draw him near to Christ for the forgiveness of their sinfullways and their unbelief?  So one has to be elected like the Israelites were chosen, to become a christian as the Lord puts a yearning into the hearts of those whom He elects.

  174. SientjeSeinen says:

    tiborspitz  but you see there are some of us who dont believe the pope in Rome is the successor to Peter, or G-d’s representative on earth.  As Christ is suppose to be the head of the churches, as He gave His life for same, meaning that the church are the people who believe in Christ being the Messiah. So if the pope in his heart does not confess that Christ is the lamb slain for the sins of the world He cannot be a follower of Christ our Lord, whom was sent by G-d to call everyone to repentance starting with the house of Israel. The vatican still has Him on the cross, He has risen and overcome the world.  This was His mission to redeem mankind of their bondage to sin.  we thank the Lord G-d of Israel for the grace which is in Christ Jesus our Lord and Redeemer.   Shalom

  175. tiborspitz says:

    aryehsax
    tiborspitz
     davidelijah777
    I am not sure you caught my previous remarks or rather
    observations I derived from the New Testament Gospels written about 100 years
    after Jesus death. Jesus told people crucified next to
    him “At midnight I will meet you in Paradise”.  As Christianity
    was not invented yetand all three prisoners
    sentenced to death were Jewish, he was talking about the JEWISH HEAVEN.  Next
    piece of information is Christian Creed issued at Nicene Council in the year
    325 saying that Jesus died on the cross, descended to Hades and ascended to
    Heaven, where he sits next to God. This God is the same designated in this
    debate as YHWH meaning God of the Jewish People from the Jewish T’nach (36
    books included 5 Books od Moses) called in Christian Bibles “Old testament”.As they are separate
    cemeteries for Christians and Jews, so apparently are also separate
    Heavens for different Christian denominations and religions.
    Conclusion:Jesus is in Jewish Heaven with all the righteous
    Jews and Jewish martyrs. In Catholic, Protestant
    and Orthodox Heavens are those departed souls WHO PROCLAIMED at the last moment
    LOYALTY TO THEIR DENOMINATION, regardless how they have behaved on the Earth
    during their lifetime.This is what Paul
    promised them (contrary to Jesus & James Jewish traditions and teaching
    where deeds and behavior counted most) by saying:“Salvation comes NOT BY DEEDS BUT BY FAITH”.
    They could have murdered their mothers few minutes before, then they proclaimed
    loyalty to the Church and when they died, they ended up in Catholic Heaven. However,
    a righteous Protestant (you can exchange him for any other denomination or
    religion) who lived a very clean and sinless life would NEVER be admitted into Catholic
    Heaven if he or she did not make that statement before they stopped breathing. Now
    you know where Hitler is: In Heavens
    reserved for the Catholics in good standing what he was.
    Between you
    and me, I do not know how they do it because there are about 50 000 Protestants
    denominations and few Catholic branches and how they sort out every soul must
    be a project for either theologians, computer experts or both.
    I know how and why we drifted here from licensing
    a Kosher restaurant: Sleazy missionaries would never miss an opportunity to
    sneak into a Jewish site and try to catch a weak or a confuse Jew to pull him into
    their net of lies.
    I am not sure you caught my previous remarks or rather
    observations I derived from the New Testament Gospels written about 100 years
    after Jesus death. Jesus told people crucified next to
    him “At midnight I will meet you in Paradise”.  As Christianity
    was not invented yetand all three prisoners
    sentenced to death were Jewish, he was talking about the JEWISH HEAVEN.  Next
    piece of information is Christian Creed issued at Nicene Council in the year
    325 saying that Jesus died on the cross, descended to Hades and ascended to
    Heaven, where he sits next to God. This God is the same designated in this
    debate as YHWH meaning God of the Jewish People from the Jewish T’nach (36
    books included 5 Books od Moses) called in Christian Bibles “Old testament”.As they are separate
    cemeteries for Christians and Jews, so apparently are also separate
    Heavens for different Christian denominations and religions.
    Conclusion:Jesus is in Jewish Heaven with all the righteous
    Jews and Jewish martyrs. In Catholic, Protestant
    and Orthodox Heavens are those departed souls WHO PROCLAIMED at the last moment
    LOYALTY TO THEIR DENOMINATION, regardless how they have behaved on the Earth
    during their lifetime.This is what Paul
    promised them (contrary to Jesus & James Jewish traditions and teaching
    where deeds and behavior counted most) by saying:“Salvation comes NOT BY DEEDS BUT BY FAITH”.
    They could have murdered their mothers few minutes before, then they proclaimed
    loyalty to the Church and when they died, they ended up in Catholic Heaven. However,
    a righteous Protestant (you can exchange him for any other denomination or
    religion) who lived a very clean and sinless life would NEVER be admitted into Catholic
    Heaven if he or she did not make that statement before they stopped breathing. Now
    you know where Hitler is: In Heavens
    reserved for the Catholics in good standing what he was.
    Between you
    and me, I do not know how they do it because there are about 50 000 Protestants
    denominations and few Catholic branches and how they sort out every soul must
    be a project for either theologians, computer experts or both.
    I know how and why we drifted here from licensing
    a Kosher restaurant: Sleazy missionaries would never miss an opportunity to
    sneak into a Jewish site and try to catch a weak or a confuse Jew to pull him into
    their net of lies.

  176. tiborspitz says:

    SientjeSeinen Wrong translation.  It is not Jesus who was born 600 years later but PEOPLE OF ISRAEL.  Read proper translation and correct your errors. Many theologians already did.

  177. tiborspitz says:

    SientjeSeinen aryehsax This is missionary rubbish. Righteous and decent people go to heaven and evil people go somewhere else.  Nobody sort them based on loyalty to the Church. BTW, Jesus was not a Christian but a Jew.  He is not in Christian Heaven.  Your motion makes people corrupt and immoral, because they can commit crimes and proclaimed loyalty get them Salvation anyway … look at my previous longer answer …

  178. SientjeSeinen says:

    tiborspitz soory I think you misunderstood, me, that when one believes in Christ that He gave His life for us, or those whom He has called to be of His flock, we receive forgiveness of our sinfullways, not becAuse of any good we have done, but only for the sake of Christ. Now when we know the truth and we sin wilfully, then there is no more sacrifice for sin, but only fear of judgment, as Christ only died once, and so to mock His suffering would provoke the Lord G-d to anger. As we are to uphold the law and look to Christ for salvation.  shalom

  179. aryehsax says:

    tiborspitz SientjeSeinen aryehsax Only if you already accept the New Testament teaching that his death had a non-visible, spiritual significance can you than go back to Isaiah and say, “see – the Prophet predicted what I already believe.” Isaiah 53, then, is in reality no “proof” at all, but rather a contrived confirmation for someone who has already chosen Christianity.
    Second (and consistent with all Jewish teaching at the time), Jesus’ own disciples didn’t view Isaiah 53 as a messianic prophecy. For example, after Peter identifies Jesus as the Messiah (Matt. 16:16), he is informed that Jesus will be killed (Matt. 16:21). His response: “God forbid it, lord! This shall never happen to you” (Matt. 16:22). See, also, Mk. 9:31-32; Mk. 16:10-11; Jn. 20:9.
    Look at the setting in which Isaiah 53 occurs. Earlier on in Isaiah, God had predicted exile and calamity for the Jewish people. Chapter 53, however, occurs in the midst of Isaiah’s “Messages of Consolation”, which tell of the restoration of Israel to a position of prominence and a vindication of their status as God’s chosen people. In chapter 52, for example, Israel is described as “oppressed without cause” (v.4) and “taken away” (v.5), yet God promises a brighter future ahead, one in which Israel will again prosper and be redeemed in the sight of all the nations (v.1-3, 8-12
    53:3 “Despised and rejected of men.” While this is clearly applicable to Israel (see Isa. 60:15; Ps. 44:13-14), it cannot be reconciled with the New Testament account of Jesus, a man who was supposedly “praised by all” (Lk. 4:14-15) and followed by multitudes (Matt. 4:25), who would later acclaim him as a prophet upon his triumphal entry into Jerusalem (Matt. 21:9-11). Even as he was taken to be crucified, a multitude bemoaned his fate (Lk. 23:27). Jesus had to be taken by stealth, as the rulers feared “a riot of the people” (Mk. 14:1-2).
    53:7 “He was oppressed and he was afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth. Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, and like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, so he did not open his mouth.” Note that in the prior chapter (Isa. 52), Israel is said to have been oppressed and taken away without cause (52:4-5). A similar theme is developed in Psalm 44, wherein King David speaks of Israel’s faithfulness even in the face of gentile oppression (44:17- 18) and describes Israel as “sheep to be slaughtered” in the midst of the unfaithful gentile nations (44:22,11).
    53:12 “Therefore, I will divide a portion to him with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the mighty.” If Jesus is God, does the idea of reward have any meaning? Is it not rather the Jewish people – who righteously bore the sins of the world and yet remained faithful to God (Ps. 44) – who will be rewarded, and this in the manner described more fully in Isaiah chapters 52 and 54?
    Now back to the restaurant “did the Rabbi do the right thing or not?”

  180. SientjeSeinen says:

    aryehsax tiborspitz SientjeSeinen  To your question did the rabbi do the rigth thing? if they were roman catholic yes, as that church is full of heresies, and they should not try to convert Jewish people, who have suffered a great deal already by trying to change the faith in the Living G-d of Israel.  G-d bless.

  181. aryehsax says:

    SientjeSeinen aryehsax tiborspitz I think the right thing was done, These people wish to convert Jews to Christianity, it did not work on a Rabbi but maybe on someone young child. Or for that matter hassle a Muslim or Druz who wish to eat there, entering there because a Kosher restaurant  was within their dietary laws also. I sure Christians would not want to enter a restaurant because a cross or some other Christian symbol was on the door  sit down to eat and be fronted with copies of the Koran and advice to follow the teachings of Mohammed. Jews see no reason to change anyone’s religion because of the teaching, that the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come.

  182. tiborspitz says:

    SientjeSeinen
    Set of
    mistakes just in this single paragraph:
    1. Since 1956 the head of the Church is Mary,
    mother of Jesus and not her son. There is no more TRINITY but QUADRITY. 
    As a person pretending to know Christianity, you have huge holes in your
    education. Christ is NOT any more the head of the Church, his
    mother is.
    2.Jesus was Jewish and he did not give life for
    the Church.Read your Gospels. He was
    executed by the Roman Pilate for “being the king of the Jews”.Church and Christianity DID NOT EXIST YET so
    you are putting horses behind the cart.
    3.Paul used a popular Jewish healer and a preacher
    to start a new religion. Paul HAS CHOSEN
    JESUS.Paul separated this new religion from
    its Jewish roots.PAUL designated Jesus
    as the Savior and Messiah (Christos in Greek). Paul made Jesus SON OF GOD.Paul did it, not GOD.Paul’s teachings contradicted Jesus teachings.
    I read it in New Testament and so can you.
    4.There is nothing to repent.To worship a human being and call him GOD or
    biological SON OF GOD is outrages.GOD
    of the Bible would NEVER do such pagan thing.PAUL did it to please the new members recruited from among the Pagan
    Gentiles.
    5.Paul single handedly constructed the new
    religion later called Christianity.New Testament
    was written in Greek for the Roman and Greeks converts.
    6.Jesus was a Jewish rebel executed by the Roman
    occupiers of Jewish country Judea. PAUL MADE HIM A SEMI GOD AND THEN PLACED HIM
    into GODHEAD. God of the Bible would never introduce a Pagan ritual or split
    UNITY and ONENESS OF HIMSELF and break first two of 10 Commandments issued by
    GOD.
    7. In New Testament,
    people still celebrated JEWISH HOLIDAYS.Later, Jewish Holidays and Sabbath were cancelled and replaced by Pagan
    holidays and with Sunday, the day when Pagans worshipped SUN. All Christian holidays are of PAGAN
    origin.Why GOD would cancel his own
    Bible and cancel His Commandments and replaced them with Pagan ones?
    8.Vatican still keeps a Jew Jesus on the
    cross.So are you by repeating like a record
    player Church’s dogmas in your few first sentences. It is at least hypocritical
    if not worse.
    9.I pray for the day when people on this planet
    would understand that Jesus was JEWISH and when they would UNDERSTAND the
    sentence Jesus said, “ONLY THROUGH ME YOU CAN BE SAVED”.What he meant was “ONLY IF YOU BECAME JEWISH
    AS I AM YOU CAN UNDERSTAND MY MESSAGE AND ACHIEVE SALVATION”. Paul perverted Jesus’ message and let his new
    members of his Church WARSHIP JESUS BODY.
    10.To the rest Jesus addressed another sentence
    that goes like this: “DO NOT CAST PEARLS TO THE PIGS”, meaning that they would ‘NOT
    RECOGNIZE PEARLS FROM THE CORN ANYWAY’ It took me awhile to understand this sentence
    and I finally did.This internet
    exchange and the paragraph you wrote helped me a lot.
    Set of
    mistakes just in this single paragraph:
    1. Since 1956 the head of the Church is Mary,
    mother of Jesus and not her son. There is no more TRINITY but QUADRITY. 
    As a person pretending to know Christianity, you have huge holes in your
    education. Christ is NOT any more the head of the Church, his
    mother is.
    2.Jesus was Jewish and he did not give life for
    the Church.Read your Gospels. He was
    executed by the Roman Pilate for “being the king of the Jews”.Church and Christianity DID NOT EXIST YET so
    you are putting horses behind the cart.
    3.Paul used a popular Jewish healer and a preacher
    to start a new religion. Paul HAS CHOSEN
    JESUS.Paul separated this new religion from
    its Jewish roots.PAUL designated Jesus
    as the Savior and Messiah (Christos in Greek). Paul made Jesus SON OF GOD.Paul did it, not GOD.Paul’s teachings contradicted Jesus teachings.
    I read it in New Testament and so can you.
    4.There is nothing to repent.To worship a human being and call him GOD or
    biological SON OF GOD is outrages.GOD
    of the Bible would NEVER do such pagan thing.PAUL did it to please the new members recruited from among the Pagan
    Gentiles.
    5.Paul single handedly constructed the new
    religion later called Christianity.New Testament
    was written in Greek for the Roman and Greeks converts.
    6.Jesus was a Jewish rebel executed by the Roman
    occupiers of Jewish country Judea. PAUL MADE HIM A SEMI GOD AND THEN PLACED HIM
    into GODHEAD. God of the Bible would never introduce a Pagan ritual or split
    UNITY and ONENESS OF HIMSELF and break first two of 10 Commandments issued by
    GOD.
    7. In New Testament,
    people still celebrated JEWISH HOLIDAYS.Later, Jewish Holidays and Sabbath were cancelled and replaced by Pagan
    holidays and with Sunday, the day when Pagans worshipped SUN. All Christian holidays are of PAGAN
    origin.Why GOD would cancel his own
    Bible and cancel His Commandments and replaced them with Pagan ones?
    8.Vatican still keeps a Jew Jesus on the
    cross.So are you by repeating like a record
    player Church’s dogmas in your few first sentences. It is at least hypocritical
    if not worse.
    9.I pray for the day when people on this planet
    would understand that Jesus was JEWISH and when they would UNDERSTAND the
    sentence Jesus said, “ONLY THROUGH ME YOU CAN BE SAVED”.What he meant was “ONLY IF YOU BECAME JEWISH
    AS I AM YOU CAN UNDERSTAND MY MESSAGE AND ACHIEVE SALVATION”. Paul perverted Jesus’ message and let his new
    members of his Church WARSHIP JESUS BODY.
    10.To the rest Jesus addressed another sentence
    that goes like this: “DO NOT CAST PEARLS TO THE PIGS”, meaning that they would ‘NOT
    RECOGNIZE PEARLS FROM THE CORN ANYWAY’ It took me awhile to understand this sentence
    and I finally did.This internet
    exchange and the paragraph you wrote helped me a lot.

  183. SientjeSeinen says:

    tiborspitz  It is true that Paul was chosen to be an apostle to the gentiles,  as he was struck with blindness on the road to Damascus, Christ asking him why he was persecuting  Christ’s followers. Paul converted and now spoke of the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ to the dispersed Jews among the gentiles.  Paul suffered a great deal from those who made money of making statues of goddesses, and silversmiths.  Rome wasnt very kind to paul as he was imprisoned and suffered his fate there I believe. Though his message spread ot many lands Constantinope being the ceasar of Rome thought he better get on with it, and changed a lot of what Christ preached. Today some of us beieve that the vatican is in fact the roman empire now under the disguise of Christianity with a pope at the head instead of a Ceasar, to whom the people pay homage.  Christ never meant it to be this way as He spoke that “My kingdom is not of this world”

  184. tiborspitz says:

    aryehsax tiborspitz SientjeSeinen This is the real meaning of the Isaiah text.  To TRANSPLANT IT  from a NATION to a PERSON who was born 600 years later is ridiculous. However, professionals call it an intentional bias  blatant fraud and I agree. All it takes to read few chapters before and after to understand that grammatically (plural, singular), historic situation, confused names (Emanuel and not Yehoshuah Jesus) and so on and on.  Very unprofessional fraudulent application

  185. SientjeSeinen says:

    tiborspitz Christ died for Mary also, as she had other children by Joseph, and why would she say “My heart magnifies the Lord, then who is she giving praise to here? Also when Christ was on the cross, He told John one of His disciples. “behold your mother, meanng Mary and to Mary “Behold your son”   Mary is not head of the church, she is not my goddess, or the queen of heaven, Christ also tells some of the people “Before Abraham I Am”  so how could Mary be the mother of Christ, she was a prophesy fullfilled as she was of the royal line of David, and you are right one’s heart has to be circumcized, as a sign of the new covenant which Jeremiah speaks of in Jeremiah 31 verses 31-33  shalom

  186. SientjeSeinen says:

    tiborspitz  Since Israel was the name the Lord 
    G-d gave to Jacob, Israel  descendants were already established when they were slaves in Egypt. and G-d brought them out with a mighty Hand.  Though they murmured a lot and grumbled constantly against the lord, and provoked the Lord G-d to anger, they were not exactly without sin, so the  people of Israel could not be the suffering servant.  Christ was alo banished to Egypt and was in the wilderness for forty days being tempted by satan, but did not transgress the laws of G-d but rebuked satan with the Word of  G-d. therefore the Lord G-d does say “I will call my son out of Egypt. and since the israelites often provoked the lord God to anger, even had Aaron build a golden calf, the people of Israel cannot be the suffering servant on whom the Lord G-d laid the iniquities of all.”  shalom

  187. aryehsax says:

    tiborspitz aryehsax SientjeSeinen No doubt tiborspitz put cheese on the cracker. Even the words of Jesus were not written by him but by people who cannot even agree on what was said or happened years after his death. Christianity only comes from Paul him alone not one witness, no one to confirm or deny .  We had multitudes ant the base of the mount who gave us G-d word by G-d himself.

  188. davidelijah777 says:

    tiborspitz aryehsax davidelijah777
    I will reply to your theological issues, but in the meantime the real issue here is about loyalty and freedom as follows.
    I noticed that your skilled apologetics uses the same/similar strategy and arguments of Muslim preachers Mr Shabir and Mr Dedat against the Gospel, the Apostle Paul, the Resurrection and the same Tanak, which they accuse of falsification and deception as you do with the New Testament.

    I am not surprised many rabbis prefer the friendship and cooperation of Islam in comparison with “Christianity”. I met one of this rabbi and clearly stated his dislike for Conservative Christian friendship and his favour for Islam. Let me tell you that the dream of Al-Andalus in progress in Europe if this is a good news for many Jews.

    Youtube is full with these sort of Christian Vs Islamic debates and in spite they look very “democratic” I must point out some basic ridiculous discrepancies which apply also to you and the the present case of the Kashrut.

    It is easy to enjoy a public forum in Sweden of Amsterdam or Melbourne or Rome… and allege Islam is better Christian than the Christianity – as you do when you say you got the best “Know-how” about Yeshua than Christian Theology does… “because He was Jewish and nobody better than the Jews can understand Him…” 

    These Muslim preachers have become experts of “Think-Tanks” in the West and Vs “Judeo-Christianity” as they preach vehemently but politely in the Western fashion while the same debates could not take place in places like Saudi Arabia were the blasphemy law supersede  their democratic ecumenico-syncretistic propaganda in the West. 

    In some limited degree – as you do not slice the hands of Christians converts for reading the New Testament – this sort of “Al-Andalus” rabbinical Judaism does the same think and I’ll tell you why. 

    1. The Conservative Evangelicals have proved to be the backbone of Western Freedom with the IIWW when Judaism was close to extinction. That was also an investment of trust in line with the same British settlement of the ME when they abrogated the Caliphate…
    The hope was that a “Moral Majority” of Judeo-Christians would be the Warrantors and the Protectors of Freedom in the world.
    2. Israel as a state finally comes back to life – and several times saved and assisted for Her own survivals to a degree that the West had to suffer several types and degrees or retaliations…
    3. In the meantime a NWO – well activated by the same axis of Free Market-Bilderberg Partners&Sons – develop in the West to such a degree that secularism, Mammon and Luciferian wing of Zionism changes the Chinese Communism and Islamic “Moderate” in favourite partners – The West therefore export investments and imports selected refugees while over 1Million Christian Martyrs eventuate in these new Partners&Sons countries.
    4. The hoped “Moral Majority” starts to shrink and become the “Moral Minority”… but interestingly the Luciferian Wing of Zionism increase the assets via the Banking+Financial System in place even before President Kennedy “passed away”… sure not by chance of mad killer. What Kennedy denounced was the cause of future USA default…
    5. Christians and Christianity (eswpecially the Conservative “Backbone”) finally enters the stage of harassment in the same West at home, first with “Think-Tanks” (Muslims call it “Dawah”) and then with even Physical Harassment.
    6. Secular ideologies, unsuitable immigration (against the nature of Western Freedom) and increasing NWO strategy of intentionally creating default in Western governments – with the blessing and the supervision of occult – now semi-occult – global powers are finally not only changing the democratic nature of the West but even starting persecuting directly Biblical Judeo-Christians and Christianity.

    My point is simple… The sort of Judaism that is coming out of this last decades procedure risks to become anti-Christian after all the benefit it enjoyed from it.

    Therefore…

    7. Jews, Judaism, Yeshivot, Rabbis, Synagogues and likewise Mosques, Islam, Imams, candidate Caliphs, Jihadists… and likewise secular/Luciferian Zionists, III Gen.Templars, Rockfellers&Rothchilds, IMF, UN, Trilaterals, NWO, Evolutionist Dawkins Tribes, Naturalists, New Age… Bankers, Bushes and Baraks… all enjoyed the “American Dream” but now their new trend is SPITTING OVER THE PLATE of the MORAL MAJORITY who made all this freedom possible… ignoring with their Media the over 1Million Christian Martyrs their new customers produced in the way to NWO.
    8. The “Conservative Back-Bone ” which to stay FREE and therefore no marriage with Nazi-Fascist autocracy will take place, but the time will come when the new Luciferian/Secular NWO friends of Israel will leave Her alone and under siege.

    The issue here is “RECIPROCITY & LOYALTY” and not so much THEOLOGY. Of course your sort of Rabbinical Judaism doesn’t agree with Paul and the Real Royal Yeshua… of course your exegesis of Isaiah 53 is what it is… The point is that we aspect from Judaism, Jewishness, Kashrut, Knesset, Rabbis, Synagogues an open loyal dialogue and civilised “Judeo-Messianic” democratic sincere and affectionate coexistence. 
    This is the point my dear friends and you risk to fail this vital point at your own detriment and risk of Israel Herself. 

    I’ll send this post as it is with no editing as I am in a hurry – I am not a professional apologist paid by any denomination or missionary entity.

  189. aryehsax says:

    @Cindy Zemel you go girl

  190. davidelijah777 says:

    aryehsax tiborspitz SientjeSeinen 
    I find amusing how in your story the Chief Sanhedrin Minister of the Police Rabbi Saul of Tarsus of the tribe of Benjamin, circumsidet the VIII day, Pharisee and Disciple of Gamaliel could fool you, Israel, the Sanhedrin with His made-up visions, stories and doctrines actioned on the way to Damascus. Very amusing the way you explain how the all Nation of Israel, Her future and the all world has been fooled by a Jewish Heretic. No surprise “The Goyim” will want to cut the ropes with Israel – Pslam 2.

  191. davidelijah777 says:

    JayIsaac Oh Yes… of course as I lived in Venice… it is called “Ghetto”.
    Why you do not leave your people to judge what is “a suitable place” or even a suitable theology as we still do in the West in spite the late push for theocracy?

  192. tiborspitz says:

    SientjeSeinen
    tiborspitz
    I believe I have figured out how you do it.You take a missionary brochure, cut out individual
    sentences, put them in a hat, shake the hat for few minutes, then pull one
    after another, and write them to any empty space you find on internet. You do
    not read or listen to others.Your texts
    resemble recordings like the soulless noisy ads playing in the shopping
    malls. Perhaps you can answer this question: As you
    said, I also read that Satan tempted Jesus.Instead of what they TOLD YOU, I think that Jesus ACCEPTED SATAN’S PROPOSAL
    TO RULE OVER THE DOMINIONS OF THE WORLD under Devil’s conditions that HE GIVES UP HIS SOUL. Jesus agreed and what
    happened?Under Jesus name, SATAN had
    produced a secular criminal organization that replaced Rulers of Roman Empire
    by name only.It retained exploitation
    of the poor, slavery, dictatorial terror over the civilian population and while
    Vatican “priests” lived like kings, the people were starving.Ordinary people had short and miserable lives
    so they promised them a better deal after they died.Churches were tall and houses small. They
    executed everybody who said a bad world against them.Clergy burned many smart books together with
    their authors. In order to stay in
    power, Catholic wars against Orthodox Christians and Protestants killed
    millions of innocent civilians. Church burned alive tens of thousands of women accusing
    them of witchcraft or herecy. When Church wanted somebody’s property,
    priests accused the owner, executed the
    victim and confiscated it. By violence
    and brutality, Jesus name WAS SPREAD OVER MANY DOMINIONS and countries EXACTLY
    HOW SATAN PROMISED IT TO JESUS when he tempted him. There were no witnesses so we do not know if
    he accepted or not.Historic facts speak
    for themselves and had many eyewitnesses. You said that Vatican does not represent
    Christianity. Whom do they represent?Is
    corrupted clergy in Vatican representing Satan from this story? About 1000 years of rule of Christianity in
    Europe and elsewhere shows that Jesus succumbed to TEMPTATION and was fully REWARDED
    BY SATAN.
    If an answer to this question is somewhere in your hat,
    please pull it out.If not, can you
    shake it harder? As for me, I just would
    like to know the truth.As you seem to
    have an answers to every questions (and even those nobody asked) let me test
    you if you are a recording machine or not.
    I believe I have figured out how you do it.You take a missionary brochure, cut out individual
    sentences, put them in a hat, shake the hat for few minutes, then pull one
    after another, and write them to any empty space you find on internet. You do
    not read or listen to others.Your texts
    resemble recordings like the soulless noisy ads playing in the shopping
    malls. Perhaps you can answer this question: As you
    said, I also read that Satan tempted Jesus.Instead of what they TOLD YOU, I think that Jesus ACCEPTED SATAN’S PROPOSAL
    TO RULE OVER THE DOMINIONS OF THE WORLD under Devil’s conditions that HE GIVES UP HIS SOUL. Jesus agreed and what
    happened?Under Jesus name, SATAN had
    produced a secular criminal organization that replaced Rulers of Roman Empire
    by name only.It retained exploitation
    of the poor, slavery, dictatorial terror over the civilian population and while
    Vatican “priests” lived like kings, the people were starving.Ordinary people had short and miserable lives
    so they promised them a better deal after they died.Churches were tall and houses small. They
    executed everybody who said a bad world against them.Clergy burned many smart books together with
    their authors. In order to stay in
    power, Catholic wars against Orthodox Christians and Protestants killed
    millions of innocent civilians. Church burned alive tens of thousands of women accusing
    them of witchcraft or herecy. When Church wanted somebody’s property,
    priests accused the owner, executed the
    victim and confiscated it. By violence
    and brutality, Jesus name WAS SPREAD OVER MANY DOMINIONS and countries EXACTLY
    HOW SATAN PROMISED IT TO JESUS when he tempted him. There were no witnesses so we do not know if
    he accepted or not.Historic facts speak
    for themselves and had many eyewitnesses. You said that Vatican does not represent
    Christianity. Whom do they represent?Is
    corrupted clergy in Vatican representing Satan from this story? About 1000 years of rule of Christianity in
    Europe and elsewhere shows that Jesus succumbed to TEMPTATION and was fully REWARDED
    BY SATAN.
    If an answer to this question is somewhere in your hat,
    please pull it out.If not, can you
    shake it harder? As for me, I just would
    like to know the truth.As you seem to
    have an answers to every questions (and even those nobody asked) let me test
    you if you are a recording machine or not.

  193. SientjeSeinen says:

    aryehsax  yes you did, you had also many who defied the Lord G-d of Israel and asked Aaron to make yourselves a golden calf to worship as Moses had not yet returned from Mt. Sinai.  We also have witnesses who were martyred for having faith in Christ being the Redeemer of Israel, we have Stephen who was stoned to death, we have Christ Himself bringing the Word of G-d to us and He was right about the leaders that they expected the people to follow the laws of Moses, but they did not follow the laws themselves. As they like some do today also in some churches when tithing, “what you give, you give to G-d” Not so Christ tells us as “the earth is the Lord’s and the fullness thereoff.” also this was so that the leaders would benefit, instead of children helping out their parents.  So yes Christ touched on many things, that showed the Lord G-d’s compassion for the people, instead of serving the law of money.

  194. SientjeSeinen says:

    @davidelijah777  Why would we want to cut the ropes with Israel, The Lord has put a love in our hearts for Isreal and its people . More christians help sustain the Jewish nation today, than do their own Jewish American people.  We do believe like Paul says that when the fullness of the gentiles has come in, the Lord will return to His own people the people of Israel.  I am no longer a goyim, but my heart has been circumcized by the Christ Jesus our Lord, to harken unto the voice of the Lord G-d of Israel  Shalom

  195. aryehsax says:

    SientjeSeinen aryehsax  these arguments will not convert a Jew to Christianity more then likely the opposite.

  196. tiborspitz says:

    davidelijah777
    aryehsax
     tiborspitz
     SientjeSeinen
    My reaction
    to the last two entries: Long time ago I heard a Talmudic story about a lion
    standing in a creek telling a lamb standing nearby, “I am going to eat you because
    you are mudding my water.” The lamb is protesting,
    “How can I mud your water when I am downstream?” The lion’s looks down at the lamb and says, “I
    eat you anyway”.
    The moral
    of the story?Whatever Jews do or do not,
    they will become a target and proclaimed guilty anyway.Why?Because
    everybody ENVIES them their more ADVANCED souls, minds and hearts. It must be
    really frustrating.
    Jewish advanced
    abilities have been debated since first Jew appeared on this planet. There is no doubt that Jews are talented, have
    their scriptures and gave the world many leaders and progressive ideas, discovery
    of ethics and morals, abolishing slavery, love for knowledge and education,
    right to doubt, weekly day of rest and so many more. Origin of Jews goes far beyond antiquity rated
    as the oldest known continuous original culture, intrinsic language and simple phonetic
    writing. Since existence of Jews, thousands of cultures vanished; many empires
    raised, declined and disappeared. After so many millennia of near misses and
    blows, Jews as if by a miracle always survived, after falling down they stood up
    and were rejuvenated (some say re-JEW-enated). Sometimes like mythological bird
    Phoenix, they literary came out of the ashes as some seven decades ago after the devastating Nazi Holocaust.Regardless of circumstances, Jews will always
    pull themselves back to life and to success.
    So dear missionaries
    and those who are so critical of Jewish religion (and Jewish people in general),
    you are wasting your time by attacking or trying to destroy this Eternal Tribe. God
    seems to have selected Jewish people and granted them Eternal Life.
    One of the last
    contributors to this debate said it well:Regardless of our opinions, let us be friends and love each other.It is better for both of us and for the rest
    of the world at large.
    My reaction
    to the last two entries: Long time ago I heard a Talmudic story about a lion
    standing in a creek telling a lamb standing nearby, “I am going to eat you because
    you are mudding my water.” The lamb is protesting,
    “How can I mud your water when I am downstream?” The lion’s looks down at the lamb and says, “I
    eat you anyway”.
    The moral
    of the story?Whatever Jews do or do not,
    they will become a target and proclaimed guilty anyway.Why?Because
    everybody ENVIES them their more ADVANCED souls, minds and hearts. It must be
    really frustrating.
    Jewish advanced
    abilities have been debated since first Jew appeared on this planet. There is no doubt that Jews are talented, have
    their scriptures and gave the world many leaders and progressive ideas, discovery
    of ethics and morals, abolishing slavery, love for knowledge and education,
    right to doubt, weekly day of rest and so many more. Origin of Jews goes far beyond antiquity rated
    as the oldest known continuous original culture, intrinsic language and simple phonetic
    writing. Since existence of Jews, thousands of cultures vanished; many empires
    raised, declined and disappeared. After so many millennia of near misses and
    blows, Jews as if by a miracle always survived, after falling down they stood up
    and were rejuvenated (some say re-JEW-enated). Sometimes like mythological bird
    Phoenix, they literary came out of the ashes as some seven decades ago after the devastating Nazi Holocaust.Regardless of circumstances, Jews will always
    pull themselves back to life and to success.
    So dear missionaries
    and those who are so critical of Jewish religion (and Jewish people in general),
    you are wasting your time by attacking or trying to destroy this Eternal Tribe. God
    seems to have selected Jewish people and granted them Eternal Life.
    One of the last
    contributors to this debate said it well:Regardless of our opinions, let us be friends and love each other.It is better for both of us and for the rest
    of the world at large.

  197. davidelijah777 says:

    SientjeSeinen “Gentile Believers” in Yeshua are not Goyim anymore (see Eph.4) but the ropes with Israel  will be cut by the Goyim of the NWO.
    The sort of Judaism advocated by aryehsax & tiborspitz will face a hard time with the Nations.
    Israel will be saved but the Siege of Jerusalem will be a struggle following a false covenant with the wrong partners and a false advocate. Only the  joying with the true Messiah and His Body will be a Resurrection from the Death.
    The strength of Israel is not sufficient without this last condition to face a global coalition of the nations.

  198. davidelijah777 says:

    tiborspitz davidelijah777 I am not a Catholic anyway and neither a Neo-Constantinian. Your apologetic technic is skilled but not effective with Jews and Christians who really know what is cooking in the doctrinal dispute.

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